forgiveness of sins

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by saturneptune, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Our sins are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, for those who are saved by His grace. For us, our sins are blotted out, forgotten by the Lord, and removed as far as the east is from the west.

    A question that has come up lately is if our sins are forgotten, why does the Bible say every idle word that man may speak will be revealed on the day of judgement. Is our sins being forgotten just relating to salvation, and the idle words, which I think also could be every hidden deed, motive and thought in a lifetime, will they be revealed and accounted for at the judgement for believers for crowns and rewards?

    I may not have worded this exactly correct, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. Helen

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    John says But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
    If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.


    While all atonement was accomplished on the cross and Jesus tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9), forgiveness is a personal thing, and different. It requires two people to be completed. It does not matter if forgiveness is in the heart of the offended if the offender is not sorry. It matters as far as the condition of the heart for the offended, but in terms of completed forgiveness, it is not accomplished. The reverse is also true -- if the offender is truly sorry and the offended refuses to forgive, then although the heart of the offender is in the right place, the offended has blocked the completion of repentance and forgiveness.

    Because of Jesus' shed blood, God is always ready to forgive, but we must be sorry and, whenever we are aware of having sinned, confess it to Him. We are not always aware of our sins, and I thank Him that He died for all sin, including unknown and unintentional ones. So we need to listen to the Holy Spirit and our friends and family to see if God is using them to inform us that there is something we need to come before the Lord with, or to ask for forgiveness from them for. Or to forgive them for.

    As long as sin is ongoing on this earth, which will be to the end of its existence, then forgiveness must also be an ongoing thing, like a stream, washing away the hurt and bitterness in the hearts of those involved.

    So, for believers who walk in the light, our sins are washed away. What we have left is what we have built with our lives -- whether it be of man-harvested perishable materials such as the proverbial wood or straw or whether from God-created and given materials such as the proverbial gold and precious jewels (see 1 Cor. 3). That is the judgment for the believer.

    Because what we build with our lives is built through our words and actions, this is how they are judged. Were we building in obedience to His bidding or trying to move out on our own? Were we content with the position and things in the lives He gave us, or scrambling for more or different? Were we listening to Him or always talking to Him....or neither? In other words, was He living through us, doing HIS work, or was He finding it necessary to constantly correct us and clean up after us and discipline us, even though we are born again in Him?

    Some will hear "Well done, good and faithful servant." Some will not.

    So no, we will not be judged by our sins. They are gone. But our works remain for judgment.

    For the unbeliever, he has never apologized for his sin and so, although his destination is determined because of his unbelief, Dante may very well have had the right idea (although certainly not the right description!) about 'different levels of hell.' We know some will be punished with few stripes and some with many if we are interpreting that parable correctly. We may not be. But I am reasonably sure that the Hitlers and Husseins of this world will be finding a greater degree of pain and torture than the unbeliever who nevertheless tried to live a decent life and didn't consciously hurt anyone.

    I could be wrong about that.
     
  3. rjprince

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    SatNep,

    Getting ready for bed, so just real quick without all addresses for the verses, OK? If you can’t find with s/w or a paper concordance, let me know will provide.

    Many people confuse the words that Jesus spoke to a general audience of unbelievers as being applicable to His children. Such is not the case. Words like you quoted about “every idle word” are in the context of a general judgement on the basis of works. This will be a judgment which only results in condemnation and the lake of fire for the subjects of this judgement.

    The works of believers will be tried by fire and only that which is of value will remain. Then shall every man have praise of God (1Cor 4:4 or 5). Our sins are covered by the blood and there is NO passage POST CROSS for believers that suggests that our sins will be brought up after we have left this life.

    God will chasten us here for the purpose of child-training, but after this life is over, the flesh is gone and all is become new. No need to chasten us then, the body of sin and our sin nature will be gone from thenceforth and forevermore.
     
  4. James_Newman

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    saturneptune, the party line says there is nothing bad for believers at the judgment seat. The bible says something else.

    1 Corinthians 3:16-17
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    no one ever wants to explain what it means to be destroyed by God, but he is talking to believers.
     
  5. rjprince

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    I can easily explain what it means from the book in which it appears.

    God will KILL them! Here and now... Not then and later...

    "delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" 1Cor 5

    "Many are weak and sickly and many sleep" 1Cor 11
    see this thread... http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/3595.html

    Guess we could go to Acts 5 and Heb 12 as well... Then there is Hymanaeus and Alexander, and Philetus...

    JN,

    Are you suggesting that God will destroy believers at the JSOC? Please tell me, no.
     
  6. James_Newman

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    thats a good guess, better than most would hazard, but the context of chapter 3 is dealing with the judgment.
     
  7. rjprince

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    Sure it is. AND THE RESULT IS THAT THE WORKS EITHER ENDURE THE FIRE, OR ARE BURNED UP. In any case, the person is saved, yet so as by fire. It is not a judgement that leads to any destruction for the believer himself, as your post suggested...

    I give up. If you don't like my answer, lets hear your exposition of 1Cor 3...
     
  8. Hope of Glory

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    Destruction of the soul (perishing) has to do with life in the coming Kingdom. To claim that only good things are handed out at the Judgment Seat of Christ contradicts both what the Bible explicitly says (one passage which James Newman pointed out), and contradicts the entire concept of a bema. Unless, of course, you think Pilate handed out good things to Jesus from his bema.
     
  9. Frenchy

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    Great question satruneptune one i was just thinking about this week. one i will have to do some studying on.

    Helen you said
    I hope i am hearing you wrong or that you made some kind of mistake, because true forgiveness NEVER requires TWO parties! where you got that from is beyond me. It only takes one person to forgive another, rarely will you find someone full of pride if they have offended you to admit that they did (sad to say even christians) all it takes is the one who is OFFENDED to forgive the other in their heart knowing that for by the grace of God there go I. it is not the responsibility of the other to accept your forgiveness to complete what is in your heart.

    many a lives of prisoners have come to repentance due to the forgiveness of the victims family, but even if they didn't it doesn't change the heart of the victim who is forgiving them. they know they are doing whatis right before GOD and for their own mental health.

    doesn't mean you have to condone ones sin or be their best friend, by all means. but to say it takes two is just wrong! I really am concern about your theology, you say things that are just way off.
     
  10. rjprince

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    Hope of Glory,

    OK. Show me where believers will get punished at the JSOC, in the Bible please, Post CROSS, please...

    Frenchy,

    Yep. You are right. Forgiveness can be done by one party. BUT restoration of relationship requires action by both parties... I think this is what was meant by "completed forgiveness".

    Forgiveness can be given BUT restoration and trust must be EARNED!
     
  11. Frenchy

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    rjprince wrote
    [​IMG]
    1 Cor 3:16-17 I am with him on this. if you read the whole chapter Paul is dealing with believers at the judgment seat. he will not be distroyed but suffer loss. it could also be refering to those who are not believers who DEFILES or OFFENDS, or causes a believer to stumble. Matt 9:42. will be severly delt with.
     
  12. Frenchy

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    Ok I hope that is what she was saying!

    I still think it is often God's job for even COMPLETE restoration. It is a rare thing to have BOTH parties make things right, almost unheard of. at least that is what i have seen in my life. i have been hurt a lot and very few have ever admitted any wrong especially growing up, but it is still my job to forgive (especially since i am the chrisitan) even if they never admit wrong. restoration still comes from God's, peace in my heart knowing i did all i can do to make things right and knowing I didn't sin.
     
  13. Frenchy

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    Helen wrote
    And this i do agree [​IMG]
     
  14. Hope of Glory

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    Well, let's start out with 2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
     
  15. rjprince

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    HoG,,

    Thats a good start. Does the text elaborate? Not there -- good or bad is all we get. Do other passages elaborate? Yep.

    Loss of reward, saved as by fire, not condemned with the world, sins remembered no more, every man shall have praise of God, they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand, able to keep that which I have committed... need I go on...

    You got anything better than that?

    Didn't think so, because that is the closest you can get to your position and it is not close enough to controvert the many other passages...
     
  16. Calvibaptist

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    This is one of those passages that leads me away from Dispensationalism into Covenant Theology. They equate the bema seat (Judgment seat of Christ) with the Great White Throne judgement. There is only one judgement - separation of the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, the believers and unbelievers.

    Notice the next verse in the passage - 2 Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.

    I am not currently dogmatic about this. I'm not really sure where I fall here right now, but am leaning towards the Covenant view.
     
  17. James_Newman

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    I think we can agree that it is possible to believe the bible teaches almost anything. When we come to the bible with preconceived ideas, we tend to interpret what we read based on those ideas. Thats not necesarily a bad thing, but it is important to check those ideas from time to time. We have been given a hand-me-down faith that is a little worn in places and may be in need of mending.

    Calvibaptist is demonstrating this type of interpretive device. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. Obviously this is in the context of the judgment seat of Christ, but if you don't believe the terror of the Lord could possibly apply to a believer, you have to come up with a way to apply it to an unbeliever. So now the great white throne is the judgment seat of Christ. And what about the 1000 year kingdom? Oh, just make that spiritual and whatnot, who cares.
     
  18. Calvibaptist

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    And, James, you are demonstrating the same interpretive device. Assuming that there is a separate judgement of believers and unbelievers (because that is what your system has taught you), you have to come up with a way to apply terror and condemnation to believers even though the Bible says "there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." And what about the fact that all our sins were paid for on the cross? Oh, just make that incomplete, who cares.

    See, you are forgetting that I have been a dispy my whole life. So, what I am actually doing is seeing that a passage of Scripture doesn't match up to my preconceived ideas. I am being willing to see that maybe my preconceived ideas are wrong. That is why I am examining the possibility that Covenant Theology is right here. I have looked (a little) at the free grace position on this stuff and don't see it as being the right position.
     
  19. genesis12

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    You were a classic dispensationalist for 25 years and that's what you were taught?

    Nonsense.
     
  20. Calvibaptist

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    You were a classic dispensationalist for 25 years and that's what you were taught?

    Nonsense.
    </font>[/QUOTE]No, that's what covenant theology teaches, not dispensationalism.
     

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