Forgiveness vs. Reconciliation

Exactly. One cannot be reconciled without forgiveness, but forgiveness does not necessarily mean reconciliation. I think some here are confusing reconciliation with restoration. They are two separate things.

 

That was my point.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, I still wonder if we should not go back and define forgiveness and reconciliation biblically. Why are some so loathe to do that.

LE, would you mind telling us what, in your mind, is the difference between the two biblically speaking. In what sense does the Bible distinguish between forgiveness and reconciliation.

Also, to your point about the wife straying, I know of cases where it has happened and been reconciled. I would suggest that your lack of knowledge does not set the standard, nor does some people's disobedience. Arguing for obedience on teh basis of experience (our own or others) is always a bad idea.

 

I know that reconciliation means to come to terms and settle things from a disagreement and I believe it means to restore the old, but when you take into consideration that God would rather have us together than separated, we should push more toward reconciliation and being together than reconciliation but going separate ways. Going separate ways means you may not marry until death do you two part. To even bring up that she does not have to live with her husband again pushes too many points at one time.

 

Who is loathe to do that?

One example is Stephen as he was being stoned to death. He asked God to not lay this sin to their charge (indicating that he was forgiving them) and yet he died. He could not be reconciled to those who stoned him because his life with them was over. Another example is the Lord's Prayer. We are to forgive our debtors. Jesus did not pray we should be reconciled to our debtors. The parents of a child who has been killed by the drunk drivier can forgive the drunk that killed their child, but there is no relationship to be reconciled.

That is true, but my point is that it is usually the wife who is the faithful spouse and seeks reconciliation. I have no doubt that statistics would bear that out.

I would hope that the above statement was not meant to be condescending to me and assume the wording wasn't intended to be denigrating. But I forgive you if it was. However, we cannot reconcile because we don't even know each other and there is nothing to reconcile.

Agreed. The Bible should be our basis for obedience; it is the interpretation based on our own preferences and biases that becomes the issue, as has been demonstrated throughout these "divorce" threads.

As Christians, we should always seek to be obedient. Forgiveness is a choice that is made within our own hearts (with God's help), to forgive those who have sinned against us, including the unfaithful spouse and those who the unfaithful spouse has slept with. However, for reconciliation to take place, it requires 2 people to reconcile and requires repentance. But that is also a separate issue from restoration of the marriage.

Here is an example: The wife whose husband molested their daughter. She can forgive him (and I assume she has, as has their daughter), but there is no marriage to be reconciled because he is locked up in jail.

Here is another example: The woman whose husband left her with 4 kids and moved in with another woman. He filed for divorce, got it and married the other woman. She forgave him and made peace with him for the children's sake to make the weekend visitations as pleasant as possible. But there was no reconciliation to the marriage because he married the other woman. God sent her a husband several years later and they have been happily married for about 30 years now. You would call her adulterous. They call it blessed.

 

I have asked the question several times and no one has addressed it that I have seen, and your post here doesn't even address it. You give supposed examples, but don't address the issue.

What would Stephen had done if he had lived?

This assumes a difference between reconciliation and forgiveness, something you have yet to establish.

But that doesn't mean that reconciliation doesn't take place. If there was nothing there to be reconciled, then there is no reconciliation that can happen. This example is irrelevant.

Nothing to forgive because there was nothing condescending or denigrating about it.

It technically requires two people to forgive. Just as God does not forgive those who don't ask, so we don't forgive those who don't ask. Remember, God is the standard (eph 4:32). That doesn't mean we harbor a grudge. We should have a willingness to forgive and should not bear a grudge, but we can't forgive until someone asks.

Is it?

Really? I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me ... ... Seriously, remember a few posts ago I asked people not to read into my statements things that are not there, and you have done exactly that. If you are not sure of what I believe (which you aren't since I haven't said what I believe about a case like that), please don't assume you know. You might not.

So again, what is forgiveness and what is its relationship to reconciliation?

 

Sorry, PL, we disagree based on Scripture. Maybe we should start another thread on it. Don't have time to respond to the rest of your post now....later.

 

My thoughts.
When forgiveness takes place, reconciliation has also taken place. But the relationship has changed. Sometimes the marital relationship has been severed and cannot be put back together, but the two have reconciled because of their forgiveness.
But even if they decide to stay married, the relationship has been forever changed, and I believe at this point they must start over and begin a new relationship.
So to say that they must "pick up where they left off" before the infidelity or they haven't reconciled is a wrong way to look at it. There needs to be a new relationship built on the foundation of forgiveness where all the previous sins have been put behind them and they start all over again in their new marriage relationship.
But either way, if they have forgiven one another, then they have been reconciled in God's eyes.

 

Interesting ... YOu think God forgives people who don't repent and ask for forgiveness? Perhaps that should be another thread, if for nothing else to find out your argument for this.

 

See if I have this right: You believe that Christians are not to forgive someone unless that person has repented? If that is your belief, I can see why you think that forgiveness and reconciliation are one and the same. I do not. I believe forgiveness is a separate issue from reconciliation. We can meet again on another thread about forgiveness, ok?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=50998