forsaken all?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. preacher

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    Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    O.K. Here's my question, If the man is resposible for providing for the home, then how can he forsake all to follow Christ. I mean in the type of Peter, & the rest of the deciples, & others that appear to have left their families to do the work of our Lord. Or does this verse mean a physical forsaking, though that is what some have done?
     
  2. Johnv

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    Don't forget that this verse follows the story of the rich man who was not willing to give up material possessions to follow Jesus.

    Jesus isn't saying that giving everything up is a necessity, he's saying that our hearts must be willing. Another takt on it may be that we must e willing to face rejection if we're to be true desciples. It's quite possible Peter, James, and John may have sufferred such rejection from their families for following Jesus. But I'm strictly surmising here, as scripture is somewhat silent on those details.
     
  3. canadyjd

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    I don't believe the "forsaken" means "abandon" as in leaving your wife and children without means of support. I do not believe Jesus is saying that it is always necessary to forsake these relationships, only that a true Christian might be forced to choose to forsake those relationships for the name of Christ. If a person must choose, as in the case of the rich young ruler, then they must choose Christ.

    I am not convinced the disciples abandoned their families to follow Christ. Paul says in I Tim. 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." This is certainly a command to take care of your families.

    The context Matt 19:29 is the response of the "rich young ruler" who chose to keep his riches rather than follow Christ. His riches were the one thing keeping him from following Christ. Whatever the "one thing" is that keeps you from following Christ, it must be forsaken.
     
  4. canadyjd

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    Looks like Johnv was thinking along the same lines as I was. He just beat me to the "enter" button.

    Hi John [​IMG]
     
  5. Johnv

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    (blushing [​IMG] )
     
  6. bapmom

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    could it also have the sense of forsaking as in not letting your wife or children be the reason that you do NOT follow Christ?

    I have heard of wives and children who at first are completely against the idea of the husband and father who wants to go to, say, the mission field. But while he doesn't leave for the field without them, neither should he let them change his mind.
     
  7. Marco

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    What does "provide" mean in this context: love, understanding?
     
  8. canadyjd

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    Marco

    The context of the I Tim passage is Christians who were allowing poor relatives (particularly widows) to be cared for by the church rather than taking care of them theirselves. In that case, Paul was speaking of housing, clothing, and food.

    He is saying the family has the primary responsibility of caring for poor members, and the church should not be burdened unless there is no one else to provide.
     
  9. preacher

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    But didn't Peter himself make a reference to forsaking all? I believe also in Matt. I know that Christ doesn't allways mean literally, but there were some instances (unless I mis-read) where it was done. I don't think they "abandoned" their families, but my question aims at if the man is the head of the home(which he IS) then how are these examples NOT a contridiction?
     
  10. tinytim

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    If a person is following Christ he will do what the Bible says.

    The Bible says to provide for your family.

    Therefore, providing for your family is a command of Christ, and evidence that someone is following Him.
     
  11. canadyjd

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    Peter's reference to "forsaking all" came after Jesus tells the rich man to give away all of his wealth. Peter and John had left the family fishing business to follow Jesus. At that point, their had been no mention of leaving families for Jesus' sake.

    It is not a contradiction because the context is not about a man's responsibilities to his family. The context is how "riches" and the other persons/relationships and material things mentioned by Christ can come between a person and God. When that happens the person must reject them and choose to follow God.

    If that person is a man, with a wife and/or children, he is not relieved of his responsibility to that relationship. In fact, he now has the added responsibility to lead his family in a Godly manner, according to the commands of Christ.

    For example, I knew of a man who came to Christ late in life. He had been living with the mother of his son, off and on, for years, but they had never been married.

    One of the first things he said after he was saved was, "this means I have to marry (his girlfriend)now" They were married, he began daily devotions with his (unbelieving) wife and near adult son.

    He didn't allow their unbelief to keep him from coming to Christ, and he embraced his responsibility as the head of the household to lead his family in a Godly manner.
     
  12. preacher

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    Yes but if he's never, or hardly ever there, how does he "provide" with all that tha word encompasses? Money or goods could be sent home, but gudiance,doing all the things that come with being a husband and or father.
    Mabey none of the deciples had children, or they were grown already? See what I'm getting at? I know the Word never contradicts itself, so how would they been able to have left their families to do what they did?
     
  13. Aaron

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    In cases of persecution, men and women have had to literally forsake all to follow Christ. Foxe's Book of Martyrs contains cases of folks who were forced to watch their family members, even little children, tortured in an effort to make the one watching recant Christianity.

    Could you do it? Could you watch as tormentors tortured your small children, who really couldn't understand what was going on, and not recant if the recantation meant their suffering would end?

    In Western society after the Reformation, the church has enjoyed relative peace and safety, and God hasn't asked sacrifices of many here that He has of those in other times and lands. That will soon change, however.
     
  14. preacher

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    ALL right, mabey I used the wrong example. But also to the young ruler he was speaking of "things" posessed. But when he spoke to Peter & the rest further down the chpt. He is including people, family.
    I know of ,say evangilists who are gone from home
    weeks, & months at a time to Preach. How are they being obedient by not beinghome much? Iknow there are lots of men that have jobs taking them away from home for long periods, but i'm mainly speaking of those that are carrying out the work of the Lord.
     
  15. Aaron

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    Jesus was speaking of discipleship, not ministry. If a man has to leave his familiy alone to "minister," he's not doing right.
     
  16. TexasSky

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    Preacher,

    I think it means that when push comes to shove, would you put God first even if it means losing your family to do so?

    My children's father used to tell me he wanted to be a minister, but he also said that since it upset his own father to hear that, he wouldn't do it. His earthly father obviously meant more to him than his Heavenly father.

    My daughter dated a young man that said all the right things, treated her better than any mother ever dreams a man will treat her daughter, said he believed in Christ. Then she found out he was Mormon. She kept dating him because she hoped she could change him. Lead him to Christ for real. She fell in love. He fell in love. He wanted her to marry him. She came to me, in tears, her heart ripped in two, because she said that she could never marry a man who really did not know and love Christ. She broke up with him FOR Christ. It was the hardest thing she ever did in her life, and I hope the hardest thing God will ever require of her.

    Now, had she married the man - the worldly things were there. He believed in family values, he was wealthy, he was educated. She could have lived the life of luxory - if she had just put herself before God.

    She has faith that God has better planned for her. Not necessarily "wealthier" or "smarter" but "better."
     
  17. Brother Ian

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    Context is king.
     
  18. preacher

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    Brother Ian,
    When I started this thread it wasn't to take the verses out of context. I was just trying to find out if Peter & other deciples did "forsake " their families to continue the work of Christ, then how was that not contradictory to providing & being there fo their families. As I stated earlier I guess that was the wrong verses to use. [​IMG]
     
  19. Karen

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    See Aaron's post.
    Also see www.persecution.com
    Many Christians NOW do have to forsake all to follow Christ.
    Yesterday was the annual Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church, sponsored by the Voice of the Martyrs and other Christian organizations.

    Karen
     
  20. HankD

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    Paul strongly implies that some did not forsake their wives.

    1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

    HankD
     

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