Free-----Does man fit under this meaning?

Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free! Seems right to me!

 

Note what you are saying here.

Bro. Dallas

 

The words are clear enough Bro. Dallas. What meaning do you assign to them?

 

No...Man does not exist in a realm of free will.

All of Creation is an expression of Who God is.

God has not designed his creation with free will (influence) that is greater than himself.

***

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

the delusion is that man has "free will" to choose.

Is Jesus really Lord ?.

(the delusion exibits "free willers" proving by their own reactions that THEY ARE LORD.)

[ March 10, 2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Well I agreed with your statements

But then you said

The dilusion is not one of man having or thinking he has "free will" GOD MADE MAN to have the ability, and the responsibility to choose from among all the options that are common to man, meaning that God has given to man in the environment in which God placed man those options from which to choose.

NO! It is not a matter of proving any such clap-trap as you suggest!

Me2, YOUR philosophy completely ignores the wonderful creation that God made in man and HE called "very good"! Nothing has changed from the creation to now except that God shortened the life span of man to not exceed 120 years, as opposed to the life of Adam which was 70 years short of a millennium! Otherwise we retain the full essence of ADAM, everything that God put into Adam, we have! It is pure ignorance on your part to reject those facts!

God did not create man so sit on his duff and wait for God to "regerate him". He created man for companionship, to commune with Him, to love and worship Him, to LEARN of Him what HE is willing to reveal.

God also, in essence, created the evil that corrupted man.

God performed ALL the works necessary for man to be redeemed...They are all FINISHED WORKS! There is no ON-GOING work to be done. It is now up to man to hear and believe, developing FAITH within, whereby man can have Everlasting life. It is man's responsibility to have faith.

 

God created man to be exactly What God intended..
each second in each individuals life.

Man learns of the knowledge of Good and Evil.
Man learns Love and Fear.
Man learns Pride and Humility.
Man learns Justice and mercy.

Man learns who God has designed man to become.

God designed man to be 200 billion DIFFERENT PERCEPTIONS of HIS SON.
200 Billion individuals running around with the spirit of Jesus Christs "within them".
Loving each other as well as loving their father.

being as close to oneness with each other and their God as they are designed to be.

All being different as being individuals, yet each designed personality from their known FATHER who just so happens to also be the creator of the universe.

God loves his creation. yet within his design. he needs teachers within his creation.

to teach good and evil.
to teach right and wrong.
to teach wrath and mercy.

and that what we are seeing today Yelsew. God is selectively choosing teachers for his creation. to teach his creation in future ages to come.

yet all are designed to do what he wills.
Not to choose what they will.

theres a big Plan Here and Man isnt in control of its results.

 

Doesn't that mean that you shall be set free from the bondage of sin.

 

Any truth can set you free from the previously held misconceptions, be they sin or simply misunderstanding.

That scriptural truth does not have to be linked only to sin!

Newton discovered a physical truth, etc., and it set him free from the misconceptions under which he previously been bound.

There is more truth than what is contained in the bible!

 

I think Jesus words need to be looked at more carefully in John 8

31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

vs. 32 - Jesus is clear that Only when you know the TRUTH are you FREE! If you are hold to His teaching, you are a disciple and you know the Truth.

33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

The Unbelieving Jews of Jesus day believed in their own free will like Arminians today.

34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

vs. 34-36 - Jesus is making the point that they were slaves. Slaves to sin and not Free. The unbelieving world has a will that is a slave to sin and that will is enslaved unto Jesus by the Holy Spirit enables a person to be free and make the right choice.(Eph. 2:1) It is a fact that all human beings will always make the wrong spiritual choices apart from the influence of the Holy Spirit.(Even classical Arminians agree up to a point with Calvinists on this) There is a false teaching that Man having a Choice means Man has a Free will. The Bible teaches we all have a choice (John 3:16, Rev.22:17) to make in coming to Jesus Christ as Savior but the Bible nowhere implies we have a Free Will.

A common saying made popular by the late Herschell Hobbs today describe Salvation as,
God cast a vote for you, Satan cast a vote against you, and It’s up to you to cast the deciding vote


That however is a false statement and teaches humanity has a part in their salvation. It also implies humanity is neutral. Humanity since the fall of Adam has been allied with Satan always making the wrong spiritual choices apart from the influence of the Holy Spirit.

A more correct illustration would be,

Satan cast a vote against you, You even cast a vote against you BUT God vetoed and overruled both you and Satan and saved you despite yourself

 

Yelsew2,

Newton believed God would save everybody.

He believed in the universal reconciliation of all Gods creation.

He believed in the Total Sovereignty of God.

He didnt believe in mans "free will" either.

 

There is more truth than what is contained in the bible!

Here is the problem. To accept this makes truth relative and to do that means there is not truth outside of what any one person receives as truth.

Bro. Dallas

 

Newton believed God would save everybody.

He believed in the universal reconciliation of all Gods creation.

He believed in the Total Sovereignty of God.

He didnt believe in mans "free will" either. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm speaking of Isaac Newton, Which Newton are you speaking of? Fig Newton?

 

BINGO! You have perceived a truth! One person's truth may not be another person's truth, as observed here on this forum. That which is consistant and repeatable becomes a universal truth! Sin is truth! Righteousness is TRUTH!

Just as there is scriptural truth there is non-scriptural truth, and it can be of the same thing!

Some examples:
It is a truth that if you jump off the span of the Golden Gate Bridge, you will hit water! That is not contained in the bible, but it is truth!

An Airplane must have sufficient forward velocity to be able to lift off from the ground. That is truth and it is not contained in the bible!

There is friction that produces heat, the result of rubbing two objects against each other. That is truth and it is not contained in the bible!

There is a law that what goes up must come down, that is not contained in the bible! but it is true.

There is a law that for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Truth that is not contained in the bible.

Two trains on the same track, one train at each end of the track begin moving toward the opposite end of the track at the same rate of speed. The rate of closure of the distance between them is twice the speed of either. That is truth, but you won't find it in the bible!

I could go on listing truthes that are not in the bible. But you get the point I'm trying to make! There is more truth than what is contained in scriptures. The scriptures however provide truth unto man's salvation!

 

Hi Tnelson;

If you take all the restrictions that are placed on freedom you still havn't managed to restrict man at all except by threat. We are bound confined and detained by threat and our own fear of the consequences. We are ruled by our willingness to be ruled no one has managed to control the thoughts of Man. So yes we are free it's just a matter of what you will accept. Our minds are free to think what it will of corase it is subject to influences but we are not forced to think the will of another.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

How about Thou shalt not covet?

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

busted!

man does not have free will to do whatever he wills.

Me2

 

Covetousness is slavery to what you covet! So, if you obey God you are set free from Covetousness.

Don't take Rom 7:9 out of its context, it is not a stand alone thought.

You are grasping at straw Me2.

 

Your statement here denotes agreement with four descriptors of free will. Consider each of these in giving your response.

To be free from any restriction (to paraphrase only one of them) denies your fear of falling away in the case of losing faith or failing to continue by works of the Spirit.

So, do some of that you sometimes accuse others of and put some thought into the end of your parroting scripture. The depth of scripture, though often parroted for effect by many preachers today, is such that it should not be dealt with so lightly.

Bro. Dallas

 

Bro. Dallas,
How do you get that from my statement? I did not say I agree with the words, but that they are clear enough as viewed on my monitor, now what meaning do you assign to them? Meaning is where agreement or disagreement comes from.

Scriptures say that one can fall away, or be choked out by the weeds, or wilt under the heat, etc. All conditions that can change a man's persuasion (beliefs) can cause loss of faith or strengthening of faith. Man's persuasions are subject to change, thus man's faith is subject to change. And Yes there are things and powers that can either loosen one's faith or strengthen one's faith. If you don't know that you should put it to the test!