Free will and a sovereign God

Me2,
Even when God chooses to blind some and save others, He is just in doing so. We are ALL without excuse.


Romans 1: 18-20 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

 

UMP,

I fully agree that God has the right and power to use men to help each other..even if he has to pit them against one another to eventually bind them together with one another.

It is the called the law of the firstborn...

As we also read in romans 9-11 as paul explains Gods plans of electing some to bring the salvation towards others.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

keeping in mind that the OT physical israel is not the focus, but the symbolic representation. today we have the blinded physical apostate church overagainst the invisible elect church.
one living by law without christ and the other under the faith of Christ.

Paul is referring to the blinded apostate church being saved through the mercy of the invisible elect church...

this still has to do with the full sovereignty of God for we see references (israel and gentiles) that could only be established and preserved by God throughout history concerning his absolute truth towards the law of the firstborn..

the free will of man could not have haphazardly held to these standards and references as it points towards Gods absolute truth with His eventual goal in mind.
someone above the reasonings of mankind has to be guiding this mysterious phenomenon.

Me2

 

Me2,
Perhaps your brain is much bigger than mine, or I'm just plain stupid, perhaps a little of both. However, I can't figure you out. What EXACTLY do you believe? If you don't mind me asking. Universalist, Calvinist or ???

 

UMP,

I believe in the election of Grace. which perscribes to God calling the elect to be saved in this age.

He also calls the reprobates to be false prophets and antichrists in this age.

Both are teachers and witnesses in the age to come towards all men who is currently being pressed into Gods Kingdom.

when the next age is over, then the reprobates and teachers of error will no longer be necessary. sin,death,error, evil (whatever you want to call it) will have served its purposes bringing all under the knowledge and authority and righteousness of Christ.

I am a christian who attends a baptist church who believe in universal reconciliation of all Gods creation as has always been Gods eventual goal and image of all of mankind. I believe in the works of the Lord Jesus christ who has defeated death and hell and will enevitably be declared by every tongue that death indeed has been defeated in their lives.

If this wasnt to be looked forward to. I couldnt agree that Jesus is indeed Lord over all unrighteousness. It wouldnt be Logical.

Me2

 

Me2,
Will Satan be reconciled?

 

Everyone of us here are sinners and the dilerate attempt to hurt one anothers feelings will only insure that you'll never change there minds.
I think we should all ask our selves if what we place here on this message board is what God would want you to place here. It's not about how to put down your brother. It's about having a discussion with someone who you disagree with and being able to control your self with LOVE while doing it. The real challenge is can you do it? and have the other person come away wondering how you can believe what you believe and be such a nice guy.
May God Bless You;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Mike,

I had hoped the big grinning smilie behind my message communicated to Bob that I was poking fun at him. Apparently I failed at least from your viewpoint. I assure you I did not intend for my message to be taken so seriously.

 

Jesus Christ Righteousness fills all things.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

What did he Create? all things.

I agree that whatever is in the new heaven and new earth will be filled with the righteousness of christ. there is nothing destroyed from Gods original creation. it is changed with the addition of the righteousness and truth given to man through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

it is covered over by the righteousness of Christ.

When Christ entered into death. it was like adding black paint with white. the results of the mixture becomes white completely absorbing the black. everything within the black became white.

Christ righteousness covered over all unrighteousness in death.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

did those passages forget anything or anybody...

all things were made to be reconciled back into Christ. to dwell "in Christ". to be at peace within Christ..in heaven and in earth.

as I have stated with these scriptures. all things will be reconciled with the covering over with the righteousness of Christ.

I cant guarantee their will be a single scential being called "satan" there.
but whatever God has made. he made it to be a part of the image that will covered over by the righteousness of Christ.

free will of man is still an illusion.

It is God who is fully Sovereign concerning the affairs of all things. in heaven and in earth.

Me2

 

Me2 writes
"It is God who is fully Sovereign concerning the affairs of all things. in heaven and in earth."

Amen !

 

That's an odd thing for a Calvinist to say. Do you claim that "pride is sovereign"?

In Christ,

Bob