Featured Free Will vs. Human Responsibility

Everyone on this board already knows what the differences are. However, you have laid claim to a "difference" that does not exist. In fact cals and non cals both believe that it requires an act of God in order for us to believe.

 

Yes, the real issue is whether God draws (Jn. 6:44) anymore than God gave to come to Christ (Jn. 6:37-40). Christ's answer is emphatically no, as he provides explicit examples of "some" that made false professions and who "from the beginning" He knew never "believed" and his explanation for such is that the Father never drew these (Jn. 6:64-65).

In the "of all" given to Christ (Jn. 6:37-39) and among "all" that are drawn/taught by God (Jn. 6:44-45) there are "all" men without distinction of race, gender and class (Jn. 12:32) such as "Greeks" (Jn. 12:21-23).

However, to attempt to read into "all men" in John 12:32 the very opposite intepretation Christ already has defined with precision in the previous larger context in John 6:44-65 is simply eisegesis at its worst.

Moreover, to repudiate the restriction of "all" in John 6:45 by the prophets to the new covenant people of God (Isa. 54:13; Jeremiah 31:34; Heb. 8:10-13; 10:15-17) is either pure blindness or willing blindness.

To deny that "all" shall be taught by the Father (Jn. 6:45) without both having heard and learned of the Father is irrational and nonsensical and can only be due to intentional doctrinal bias. However, that is what the Arminian is forced to conclude because Jesus says that "every man" thus taught does in fact come to the Father (Jn. 6:45b) which repudiates the definition of "all men" by Arminians in John 12:32.

 

No, as the sin nature prevents that from happening, so the Lord Himself must do His work to permit us to be enabled to have the "free choice option: available to us!

 

Inability is found in the depraved mind/heart rather than in the power of choice. The human will is the power of choice, but that power of choice is always determined by the disposition of the heart and intellect. We either choose out of intellectual determinism (Gr. boulomai "will") or out of heart desire (Gr. theloumai "will"). It is this combination of intellect and emotional desire that is the "mindset" (Gr. phronema "mind" - Rom. 8:7) of those "in the flesh" (v. 8) that is "at enmity against God" and it is this mindset that denies volitional ability to "submit to the law of God" and neither indeed can be, as long as that "mindset" dominates the will.

 

Sure and the apostle Paul lied to the Jailer when he asked what he must do to be saved. Act 16;31. it's strange don't you think that the apostle to the Gentiles would tell this jailer anything else other than the truth..
I'm afraid your doctrine calls Paul and God a liar when it comes to the ordo salutis.

I have good news for you Calvinist aren't the only ones to believe we are all at God's mercy. No one comes to Him unless drawn but Calvinist assume all men are not drawn again calling God's Word a liar. Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself. Christ was lifted up on a cross and draws all men. Even though all men do not respond.

I wonder what it was you wanted me to read?

No matter what you call it it's not a true explanation of it

And just where did you get this idea it's not in scripture as you have explained it.
In fact none of your doctrines of grace are described in the Bible As you have described.
MB

 

Please feel free to interact as you wish

 

There is no contradiction at all if God has not only chosen WHO will be saved but also HOW they will be saved. He has chosen them "to salvation" THROUGH the sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth (2 Thes. 2:13). In the salvation of the elect the gospel comes to them "not in word only" (although it must come that way) but in the Holy Spirit, and in power and in much assurance (1 Thes. 1:4-5). Hence, gospel conversion is the human experience of regeneration as they are two sides of the same coin. Therefore the gospel comes in word with the command to repent and believe in order to be saved, but to the elect it additional comes as the creative power of God that calls spiritual light/life into existence within the heart (2 Cor. 4:6).

John 6 precedes John 12 and you cannot use John 12 to redefine the word "all" in John 6. John 6:64-65 provides an explicit example of "some" that the Father never drew. The term "all men" means all men without distinction of race, gender or class, such as the "Greeks" that in the context of John 12 wished to see Jesus and it was in response to that very request that John 12:21-32 is framed. The "all" the Father drew in Jn 6:37-39 is the same "all" the Father "taught" in John 6:45. If you will look up the prophets Jesus quotes it is Isaiah 54:13 and Jeremiah 31:33-34 and "all THY CHILDREN" of the New Covenant which is applied to all the elect both Jews and Gentiles by Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:15-17. Additionally, no one is "taught" unless they have both "heard" and "learned" of the teacher and "EVERY MAN" thus taught comes to Christ (Jn. 6:45b).

Furthermore, I challenge you to find even one example in the New Testament where the Greek word translated "draw" in John 12:32 is not found in the passive voice demonstrating the drawn are not active in the drawing, and that what is drawn is not at the same instant coming. In the instance of the fish net the only deficiency was in the weakness of the power doing the drawing, but that cannot apply to God can it, as he is without such weakness.

 

People, in their fallen state, have zero desire to come unto Him to be saved. They are blinded, deafened, and have an hardened hard, all caused by sin. Unless God removes their blindness, unstops their deafened ears, and breaks their stony hearts, they won't come to Him. That's why when someone places regeneration at the end, their ordo salutis is off the skids. You are expecting the unregenerate to do that which only the regenerate can do. That is to hear, see, and love God. All three of these have to happen first, and not after salvation. Regeneration----->salvation, not regeneration=salvation.

What about those who died never hearing about Jesus? That's why people were so desirious of sending missionaries to expose them to the gospel. There's been many who died never knowing Jesus existed. Did Christ draw them, those who never knew anything about Him?

 

The Lord tells us through the scriptures over and over again that we cannot come to Him at the time of our own choosing, as its when He moves upon us and makes it the "right time" that we will come to Jesus to get saved!

 

No one knows the precise time God empowers the Gospel as His creative word to speak "the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" in our heart. That empowered act is quickening but it is the gospel used as the creative word. God uses human instruments to bring the gospel to our physical ears, but when "it pleased God" that external word is then empowered by the Spirit of God as the quickening word that creates us in Christ Jesus.

 

true, which is why the timing of salvation differs from one to another, as when the same message is preached, one comes to Christ, one stays hardened in their sins, but later on comes to Christ when quickened and moved upon by the Holy Spirit ...