Freed From Sin By Being Freed From the Law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by RedemptionAddiction, Apr 29, 2006.

  1. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Hello, I just wrote an article. And it’s very important to me that it be biblically accurate so I wanted everyone to take a look at it and let me know if I made a mistake in anything I said. I realize any discussion has multiple angles you could go from but in this case, all I want to know is if I said something that was not supported with scripture.

    Below are a few things I found to be helpful when offering correction . . .

    1.Please steer clear of personal remarks. Saying things like, "You’re deceived." Or, "You’re a false teacher." Won’t accomplish anything. There are various forms of these comments, but they’re easily spotted because they’re always addressed toward the person, rather than the subject at hand.

    2. Please be specific. "You interpreted that wrong." Or "You have a flawed reasoning here." Are examples of vague generalities. If you say things like this, but don’t give an example, there is no way for me to tell what you’re referring to-thus how will I correct it? The best way I have seen to do is this is to quote what I said and then show how I was wrong.

    3. I’m interested in being able to read it in my own Bible. I understand people can say, "What it means here is . . ." Or "What is being implied by the context is . . ." But these explanations requires me to put faith in what you say about it rather than what it says by itself. So instead, I prefer to read it straight from the Bible.

    4. PLEASE BE HONEST- If you don’t know, just say, "I don’t know." If all you have is an opinion on it, just say "I could only give you my opinion, but I don’t have any scripture that actually say this . . ." That way I at least know where you’re coming from. And I won’t be left wondering if you had a real point to make, or if you were just giving your opinion.


    Let me thank everyone for their participation ahead of time. I really do appreciate it.


    __________________________________

    Now, remember how we read earlier that sin is the transgression of the law (1Jn 3:4)? What do you suppose would happen to sin, if you took away the law?


    8: But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, worked in me all manner of lust. For without the law sin was dead . . . I was alive without the law once
    (Rom 7)

    Why would sin be dead without the law?


    Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    (Rom 4:15)


    See how that works? If sin is the transgression of the law, and where no law is, there is no transgression, then we can understand that without the law, sin is dead!


    So, where does this leave New Covenant believers? What did Christ do for us to End the Sin Problem?




    Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    (Col 2:14)

    . . .

    Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; in order to make in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

    (Eph 2:15)


    We see that if the law is removed, the transgression of the law is removed. What is the transgression of the law? It’s sin! Sin is removed when you remove the law. Can you understand that? The law was taken out of the way. And it was by the transgression of the law that we sinned. But now, where there is no law, there can be no sin as we once knew it.

    Settled In Our Minds

    It needs to become settled in the mind of the believer that because of the removal of the law, sin, in all it’s power, in all it’s struggles, is dead. It’s completely taken care of. The reason sin had such power was because of the law. And the reason we were even aware of sin, was because of the law. By knowing the Truth about the removal of the law, and the way it effects the Christian, we are set free from sin (Jn 8:32).


    There Is None Righteous


    Nearly every time I get into a conversation with another believer about the part that sin plays in the Christian walk, they almost always bring up Romans 3:10-18 to try and demonstrate that all of us, including Christians, are sinners. Then I always point out that they forgot to read verse 19, which demonstrates that this is no longer the case.

    Now we know that whatsoever the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    (Rom 3:19)

    See, you’re not righteous and you’re not in right standing with the Father, if you’re under the law. Paul quoted from Psalms when he said, "There is none righteous . . ." after finishing, he then adds, "It said these things to those who are under the law." You see, you’re not under the law anymore. You now have absolutely no sin imputed to you.

    Sin No Longer Imputed

    Romans 5:13 demonstrates to us one reason why sin cannot be imputed to us.

    For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


    It was the law that imputed sin to us. What does impute mean? Not only does it mean that sin isn’t held against you, but sin isn’t even taken into account. It’s not cosidered, or reckoned (Strong’s 1677). Remember Romans 8:33? Let’s read it again in this light . . .

    Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifies.


    Are you God’s elect? Well then no matter how many times people try to call you a sinner, it’s not true. No one can lay a charge against God’s elect. Not you, and not me. You’ve been freed from condemnation. Sin is no longer reckoned or counted to you.

    Romans 4 . . .

    5:But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    6: Even as David also describes the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputes righteousness without works,

    7: Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

    8: Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    Did you read that? It isn’t sin that is imputed to the believer. It’s righteousness. His faith is counted as righteousness. And Paul quotes David describing what righteousness is. Your iniquities have been forgiven, and the Lord will not impute to you any sin. Righteousness, according to the Bible definition, is no longer having sin imputed to you. You don’t have a single sin imputed to you because of the fact that your faith was counted for righteousness. Glory to God, righteousness has made us absolutely sinless!

    Ephesians 1 tells us . . .

    4: According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


    Colossians 1:21-22 tells us something similar . . .


    21: And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled

    22: In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


    We can understand these statements now in the light of knowing that no sin is imputed to us. We stand holy and without any blame at all, before God, because of the Work of Christ.
     
  2. gekko

    gekko
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    paul also says "do we then make void the law? God forbid. yea, we establish the law"

    (Romans 3:31)

    also "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET."
    (romans 7:7)

    also "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13. Was then that which is good (the law) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exeeding sinful. 14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16. If then I do that which I would not, I consent UNTO THE LAW that it is good. 17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into the captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself SERVE THE LAW OF GOD; but with the FLESH the law of sin."

    Jesus also said "if ye love me keep my commandments"

    which commandments?

    New Covenant believers? who is the new covenant for? hmm? not for the gentiles.
    Jeremiah 31:31 "31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. "

    romans 11 explains that the gentile believers are grafted in.

    without the law. we sin, without knowing that it is sin. now with the law, we know what sin is (romans 7:7)

    we still sin. face the facts. if we claim to have no sin we are liars. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

    so we cannot take away the law (because it will still be there) and say that we have no sin because we do not follow the law...
     
  3. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    Hi RedemptionAddiction

    I agree with gekko. You need to show the full view. Your work at this point is slated a bit. Freed from the law does not mean the law has no use. gekko has already posted some good verses. The Law is still wrote down in our hearts as seen in Romans 2 and Heb 10. We still must have a sence of right and wrong. Freed from the law does not mean no commandments and total lawlessness. A overview of what happens at salvation can be seen in my short post below.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3855.html#000004

    In Christ..James
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Because as Romans 3 states - the Law is the ONE thing that points to the NEED of salvation for ALL MANKIND to this very day.

    The only reason that people STILL need to accept the savior is that there is STILL the LAW of God defining sin and pointing to the fact that all have sinned ALL need salvation ALL owe the debt of the second death for sin!

    Without that - there is no need for the Savior!!

    How would you evangelize if you had to toss out the NT and OT that speaks to this fact of sin and our need of forgiveness?
    The pre-cross Commandments of Christ the Creator were to be kept by Christ’s followers.

    John 14:15 ”If you love Me keep My commandments”

    These are the Words of Christ the Creator as He quotes from the 2nd commandment.

    But what exactly did these pre-cross words of Christ “mean” to His Jewish followers – the “primary audience” that exegesis would have us consider?

    Lets see if we can discover that by looking at some more statements found in God’s Word.

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”.

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”. No wonder Paul says --
    So lets see. The law will not change in even the minutest way, till heaven and earth pass. Anyone who breaks the law, and teaches others to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Thinking about committing sin is now just like actually committing the sin. Ah, the law has been magnified. Christ came and fulfilled the law, observing all of it’s commands, even in thought, not just action.

    Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.
    Christ quotes from the 3rd commandment for the statement above.

    Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same
    Notice that John promotes this theme not only with his recording the pre-cross statements of Christ the hCreator – but also the post –cross teaching.
    Christ condemns those who would break the Commandments of God for the sake of man-made tradition –
    Christ’s followers continue to keep the Sabbath commandment after His command that they should “Love Me and Keep My Commandments” John 14:15 (quoting from the 3rd commandment in Exodus 20)
    Why do the Gospel writers take such care to teach us what Christ commanded them?

    Notice that John does not try to “divide God” as if God’s commandments are not Christ’s

    As for Law and Grace -- Pauls words in Romans 2:13-16 come to mind relative to "justification".

    Here the "New Covenant" promise of the "Law written on the heart" is clearly seen.

    Is it any wonder that Paul writes

    And James 2 tells us to live and act as those "Who are to be judged by God's Law of Liberty".

    God is not "calling for rebellion against His Law" as many Christians today "suppose".

    Nor is He "abolishing His law" so that only the lost are guilty of breaking it - but the saved can freely transgress and in fact are commanded not to regard it at all. Rather God declares that the name of God is profaned among the wicked by the breaking of His law among the saints. (in Romans 2)
     
  5. Dustin

    Dustin
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    In dummy terms, I think Paul is saying that there's no way we can follow commandments or law apart from Christ. We are commanded to, but we cannot, we are sinners with no good in us. But in Christ, we're new creatures, and we can do anything through Him that strenghtens us. Jesus allows us to be able to follow the law.
     
  6. gekko

    gekko
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    amen for that
     
  7. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Gekko said . . .

    paul also says "do we then make void the law? God forbid. yea, we establish the law"

    (Romans 3:31)


    Redemption Addiction said Yep. That's a good scripture. I definitely agree. Romans 8 says the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in us by what Christ did. If that's not upholding and establishing the law, I don't know what is.


    Gekko said: also "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET."
    (romans 7:7)


    also "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13. Was then that which is good (the law) made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exeeding sinful. 14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16. If then I do that which I would not, I consent UNTO THE LAW that it is good. 17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into the captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself SERVE THE LAW OF GOD; but with the FLESH the law of sin."

    RA says . . . Those are all very good scriptures. Thanks

    Gekko said
    Jesus also said "if ye love me keep my commandments"

    which commandments?

    RA says
    Hmmm . . . I couldn't say with certainty, but John in his first letter may give us some light . . . 1Jn:3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

    Gekko says
    New Covenant believers? who is the new covenant for? hmm? not for the gentiles.
    Jeremiah 31:31 "31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. "

    RA:
    Well . . . You said the New Covenant was not for the Gentiles based on God saying He would make it with Israel. But not all are Israel, just because they are OF Israel . . . Lemme show you . . .

    "6: Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
    Rom 9

    So you may not necessarily be from Israel . . . But you are Israel if you're of the promise. Paul explains further in Galatians 3 says that if you're of Faith, you're Abraham's seed. And then in chapter 4 Paul says plainly, "We are the children of promise"


    Gekko:
    romans 11 explains that the gentile believers are grafted in.

    RA:
    I believe that also

    Gekko:
    without the law. we sin, without knowing that it is sin. now with the law, we know what sin is (romans 7:7)

    RA:
    Not exactly . . . I point out in the article that if there is no law, there is no transgression

    Gekko:
    we still sin. face the facts. if we claim to have no sin we are liars. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

    RA:
    I think this verse is cleared up when read in context. Then we find out that we can walk in the light and be cleansed of all sin. And 1Jn 2 even says that the purpose he wrote to us was so that we don't sin . . . Now if it were not possible to stop sinning, then God wrote 1Jn in vain.

    Gekko:
    so we cannot take away the law (because it will still be there) and say that we have no sin because we do not

    RA:
    I'm not trying to take the law away . . . Christ did that already. I point that out in the article.

    Thanks for your reply. I really do appreciate it.
     
  8. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Jarthur said:
    Hi RedemptionAddiction

    I agree with gekko. You need to show the full view.

    RA:
    Well, the problem with showing the full view is (and it's not really problem) but honestly, you'd have to quote the whole Bible. Cause that's the whole view God has. But I wanted to deal with a specific part

    Jarthur:

    Your work at this point is slated a bit.

    RA:
    This comment is vague. I'm not sure what you mean.

    Jarthur:Freed from the law does not mean the law has no use.

    RA:
    I agree.

    Jarthur:gekko has already posted some good verses. The Law is still wrote down in our hearts as seen in Romans 2 and Heb 10.

    RA:
    I've always wondered how we could be sure that Hebrews 10 is referring to the Old Covenant. Especially since God says "Not according to the Covenant I made with their father's . . ." Heb 8:9

    Jarthur:We still must have a sence of right and wrong.

    RA:
    God's original purpose for man was no to have a knowledge of good and evil.


    Jarthur:
    Freed from the law does not mean no commandments and total lawlessness.

    RA:
    I agree
     
  9. gekko

    gekko
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    "Jesus also said "if ye love me keep my commandments"

    which commandments?

    RA says
    Hmmm . . . I couldn't say with certainty, but John in his first letter may give us some light . . . 1Jn:3:23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

    notice Jesus said "if ye love me, keep my commandments" that's plural. not singular. what you stated is only one of the commandments. plural.

    show me scripture where it says that Jesus took away the law.

    there is none.
     
  10. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    BOBRyan says:
    Because as Romans 3 states - the Law is the ONE thing that points to the NEED of salvation for ALL MANKIND to this very day.

    The only reason that people STILL need to accept the savior is that there is STILL the LAW of God defining sin and pointing to the fact that all have sinned ALL need salvation ALL owe the debt of the second death for sin!

    Without that - there is no need for the Savior!!

    How would you evangelize if you had to toss out the NT and OT that speaks to this fact of sin and our need of forgiveness?

    RA:
    I would not argue that.

    BOB:
    The pre-cross Commandments of Christ the Creator were to be kept by Christ’s followers.

    RA:Where's the Bible say that?

    BOB:
    John 14:15 ”If you love Me keep My commandments”

    These are the Words of Christ the Creator as He quotes from the 2nd commandment.

    RA:
    I'm not sure how certainly we can take what Jesus said to the Jews under the Old Covenant. We don't live under the Old Covenant.

    BOB:
    But what exactly did these pre-cross words of Christ “mean” to His Jewish followers – the “primary audience” that exegesis would have us consider?

    Lets see if we can discover that by looking at some more statements found in God’s Word.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Matt 5:17-22
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
    22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Matt 5:27-28 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
    28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”. No wonder Paul says --

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RA:
    I'm still unsure if what CHrist taught to Jews under the Old Covenant applies to us. Of course, if you find it in the New, then yes. But if Christ said it, but it was not echoed in the New Covenant . . . Does it apply?


    BOB:
    Romans 3:31 “Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God”

    RA:
    Like I told Gekko . . . I definitely believe this verse. I uphold the law more than anyone who lived under the Old Covenant. Because Christ fulfilled it to the full in me (Rom 8)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BOB:
    So lets see. The law will not change in even the minutest way, till heaven and earth pass.

    RA:
    I forgot Jesus had said that . . . Hmmm. Interesting. But . . . Didn't Jesus say more specifically that it would not pass away until it was all fulfilled? And didn't Jesus say He fulfilled it?

    BOB:
    Anyone who breaks the law, and teaches others to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

    RA:
    And the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than the greatest Old Covenant prophet! (Matt 11:11). And I'm now in the Kingdom (Col 1:13)

    BOB:
    Thinking about committing sin is now just like actually committing the sin. Ah, the law has been magnified. Christ came and fulfilled the law, observing all of it’s commands, even in thought, not just action.

    Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
    11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

    John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christ quotes from the 3rd commandment for the statement above.

    Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    John 12:50
    "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

    RA: again . . . You're assuming that what Christ said before the New Covenant came into being still applies. If we were to do this . . . All of us would have to be a practicing Jew. Let me show you one example . . .

    2: Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    3: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
    (Matt 23)

    BOB:

    Notice that John promotes this theme not only with his recording the pre-cross statements of Christ the hCreator – but also the post –cross teaching.

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I Jn 2:3-4 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    RA:
    But here John defines what commandments he's talking about (1Jn 3:23)

    Like I said . . . I'm not sure you realize what you would be proving if you were able to prove that what Christ taught Jews under the Old Covenant applies to us. We would all be sacrificing animals and doing all the things the Pharisees commanded.

    BOB:
    Matt 19:17 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christ condemns those who would break the Commandments of God for the sake of man-made tradition –

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Matthew 15:3
    And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Christ’s followers continue to keep the Sabbath commandment after His command that they should “Love Me and Keep My Commandments” John 14:15 (quoting from the 3rd commandment in Exodus 20)

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Luke 23:56
    Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Why do the Gospel writers take such care to teach us what Christ commanded them?

    RA: The Gospels are inspired by God. He wrote in them what He wanted.

    BOB:
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Matt 28:
    18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RA:
    This is the first scripture that actually presents an apparent problem to what I've said . . . I'll have to think about it . . . Thanks
     
  11. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Gekko:

    notice Jesus said "if ye love me, keep my commandments" that's plural. not singular. what you stated is only one of the commandments. plural.

    RA:
    Believing in Jesus and loving one another is two things . . . Not one. I know John said "And this is His commandment . . ." without the "s" but I'm not seeing a difference in the Greek. Check it out at blueletterbible.com

    Gekko:
    show me scripture where it says that Jesus took away the law.

    there is none.

    RA:

    Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    (Col 2:14)

    . . .

    Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; in order to make in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

    (Eph 2:15)
     
  12. gekko

    gekko
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    ok. so answer me this:

    the people who are not believers have to realize their sin by the law.
    but when they become believers, they no longer have to realize sin by the law?

    that is essentially what you are saying.
     
  13. gekko

    gekko
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    God does not change. period.

    God would not make laws, and then get rid of them.

    capiche?
     
  14. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Gekko:
    ok. so answer me this:

    the people who are not believers have to realize their sin by the law.
    but when they become believers, they no longer have to realize sin by the law?

    that is essentially what you are saying.

    RA:
    Well . . . It's a hard saying. But Heb 10 talks about how by Jesus offering one last sacrifice one and for all .. . . We don't have to have anymore consciousness of sins. We don't live by a "this is right . . . This is wrong" but . . . As Paul said "unto the pure, all things are pure" (Ti 1). But this is another subject. The article is actually a chapter from a book I wrote . . . But I can't post it in it's entirety because no one would take the time to read the whole thing at a discussion board. But you can order it for free through our website upontheword.com

    Gekko:
    God does not change. period.

    God would not make laws, and then get rid of them.

    capiche?

    RA:
    Hmmm . . . But Hebrews 8 says specifically that the New Covenant would not be according to the Old. That right there shows that God can set up a certain way of doing things, and then, if He wants, He can instigate a New Way of doing things
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    #1. God intended it for our instruction.

    #2. God told His followers to teach us WHAT Christ taught them.

    #3. Those followers THEN WROTE to us those things HE taught them.

    You are kinda agreeing to these obvious points in that snippet response - but it is hard to tell.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. gekko

    gekko
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    are we then not to follow the ten commandments? apparently Jesus Christ nailed them to the cross!

    yippee! now i can go lie, steal, lust, have idols, covet, disregard the sabbath, take the Lord's name in vain etc!

    yay! now that the law is gone... now i can do these things, and i still wont be sinning!

    boy do i feel free! freedom from the law! freedom from sin! yeeeeaaah!

    (note the sarcasm...)
     
  17. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    RA,

    You ask about this statement.."Your view is slated……"


    Slated…held to a schedule.

    Your look in the OP was held to only Grace, and freedom from the Law. Being a Calvinist I love to talk about Grace. Yet in truth there is other things your reader must know. You agree that the Law still plays a part. You also agree that …Freed from the law does not mean no commandments and total lawlessness. You agree to these things and yet have not shown it. You are slated in grace, for this is the subject at hand, and have forgot about commandments.

    When preaching a subject one must be aware that some will only read/hear that one message and leave never to hear you again. When speaking on Grace we must also show the “full view” of the Bible. I do agree with nearly all that you said from the OP, but your focus has been kept to the subject and not on the full truth. I know this is your main point, but to the one time reader, you have said the law is no longer needed.

    One must leave the schedule of the pointed subject and give full council in order to share truth.


    In Christ..James
     
  18. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    2nd post of the above.. [​IMG]
     
  19. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    BTW..this has nothing to do with the views of others, trying to force good works on salvation. But I think you know that.
     
  20. RedemptionAddiction

    RedemptionAddiction
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    Bob, well, right now I'm wondering about one of the last scriptures you presented from Matthew 28. Like I said, I really appreciated the input, but this was the only one that "seems" to present a problem to what I've said. Of course, I'm wondering how you yourself would reconcile matthew 28 with what Jesus said

    "2: Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    3: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
    (Matt 23)"
     

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