Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Turbeville, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Turbeville

    Turbeville
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    Masons have leadership positions in many churches and their secret rituals contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ. What I don't understand why Pastors and other members in church allow a pagan religion to be part of a christian church!
     
  2. Jude

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    It's because many clergy/churches were, until recently, rather-ignorant of Masonic teaching. The many books/videos on the subject (right or wrong)have now caused many to be concerned about Masonic teaching. Also, many clergy are simply avoiding the issue because it is easier to do so. And finally, the numbers of Masons in many congregations are significantly down, as Masonic membership has taken a 'nosedive'. Most young people simply don't have an interest in fraternal organizations.
     
  3. Dan Todd

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    Many members of the Masonic Lodge - do not know the full details of what is behind the teachings of the lodge!

    They only see the "good" that is done by the lodge - and do believe that anything that does "good" can be built on a "bad" foundation.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    There is a certain fascination in going through the "chairs" of masonry. Everything I experienced encouraged one's attendance at church and the gospel of Jesus Christ. It did not detract from Christianity, but enhanced one's inclinations, plus the facts of doing good in the community and the sense of fellowship and family responsibilities.

    When I decided to leave masonry, it was a doctrinal decision. To the average person, and this includes Christians, the doctrines involved would not be evident, but they were there. The secrecy aspect is greatly exaggerated. Masons have an annual church parade and all members are expected to attend. It varies as to which church they use, but a protestant church it is. A Catholic can be a Mason and the only condition is that he must deny the infallibility of the pope and the confessional.

    Whilst I no longer support masonry, I am always amazed to hear outsiders speak of the organization.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. Turbeville

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    Thank you for your comments...in the 40's and 50's there were approv 4.5 million masons and that is down to 1.7 million in the USA. Praise the Lord for that and I hope it continues to fall. I have a personal interest because my son-in-law, Glen, has joined the masons, even though, he states that he is a Christian. They believe in salvation through good works and rebith through Hiram instead of the grace of Jesus Christ. Please pray for him and his next Mason meeting is Tuesday, April 13th at 7pm EST. Thank you for your prayers!
     
  6. Jim1999

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    They believe in salvation through good works and rebith through Hiram instead of the grace of Jesus Christ

    ________________________________________________

    Totally false, but as I said, so many outsiders have ideas that are foreign to masonry. Perhaps some local lodges adopt notions all their own. I never denied salvation through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and never accepted the notion of another "saviour" or means of salvation. Sorry to bust your bubble.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Turbeville

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    Jim1999...What was your reason for leaving the lodge? These facts are what I have been told by other ex-masons and lecture from Ex-masons for Jesus and the Order of Former Freemasons(OFF). Can they all be wrong?

    What is your feelings about the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man?

    Thanks!
     
  8. Jim1999

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    I do know that most teach the brotherhood of all humankind, and in a sense that is true, if we believe that all men have their origins in Adam.

    God is the Father of our precious Lord Jesus, and our Father as we relate to him through grace.

    My reasons for leaving are personal, but they were doctrinal. Whether people like it or not, an oath before God is an oath and I honour that and will not talk about masonry specifically.

    I have heard some so-called ex-masons and they have said all manner of things, including supposedly twice born men. If they were honest, they would say nothing, for the same reasons I maintain silence, except in general terms. Is an oath before God not an oath? When does it cease to be an oath? When does a lie become a lie?

    Sorry, I have seen too many ghost-chasers.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. D28guy

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    Well, I dont know how a christian who discovers the truth about Masonry can then say they will know share it.

    Here is some interesting information. This is not from a "lets bash the Masons" web-site...
    --------------------------------------------------

    The majority of Masons today don't have a clue as to the true meaning of their rituals and symbols. And they certainly cannot be called bad people. Misled, yes, and most really are the good natured philanthropists helping their community, that we see outwardly. You see it is not required of intiates to ascend any higher than that of the third degree Master Mason. They know there are another 30 degrees if one wished to continue, but the initiation process is a tedious and drawn out affair (it might take a year to reach the third degree), which the participants, for the most part, are happy it's over with. For them it is good that they not continue. And that's just the way higher initiates, or adepts, like it.

    "The Blue Degrees are but the court of portico(porch) of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them....their true explication is reserved for the Adept, the Princes of Masonry." (32nd & 33rd degrees)

    General Albert Pike wrote those words in a work called: Morals and Dogma in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, 1871. At the time his title was the Grand commander of the Supreme Council, of the Scottish Rite in Washington D.C. This book is revered by occult groups across the globe, and most masons have never read it, let alone understood it. If they did understand it, there's a good possibility they would leave the craft. It deals with the occult origins of the symbols, initiations, and rituals of Freemasonry.

    It is also a handbook for degree initiation, as it details them all up to the 33rd degree, which was invented by Pike himself, some say in order to have a higher degree than the president, who ceremoniously receives the 32nd degree if elected.....Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity....an outer organization concealing an inner Brotherhood of the elect...it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum. [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']

    ~Manly P Hall 33rd degree, Lectures on Ancient, p.433]....."The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahweh reversed; for Satan is not a black god.. for the initiates this is not a Person, but a force, created for good,but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of liberty and free will."
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma," Master Mason / 3rd Degree p. 102 ]

    "Masonry is a search for light. That light. That search leads us back, as you see, to the Kabala. In that ancient and little understood (source book) the infinite will find the source of many doctrines; and (he) may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Antipapal Thinkers of the Middle Ages, and Emanuel Swedenborg."
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma," 28th Degree p. 741 ]

    "All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabala and return to it; everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of the Illuminati, Jacob Boeheme, Swedenborg, Saint Martin, and others is borrowed from the Kabala; all Masonic associations owe to it their secrets and their symbols."
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma," 28th Degree p. 747 ]

    "Though Masonry is identical with the ancient Mysteries, it is so only in this qualified sense: that it presents but an imperfect image of their brilliancy, the ruins of their grandeur .."
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma Fellowcraft Degree p.22 ]

    "Masonry, successor to the Mysteries (Babel, Mythras, Tummuz, Whicka,etc.) still follows the ancient manor of teaching."
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma Fellowcraft Degree p.22 ]

    "These two divinities (Sun and Moon, Osiris and Isis, etc) were commonly symbolized by the generative parts of a man and a woman; to which in remote ages no idea of indecency was attached ; the Phallus (penis) and the Cteis (vagina), emblems of generation and production, and which, as such appeared in the Mysteries (I believe Masonry is the revival of these). The Indian Lingam was the union of both, as were the boat and mast and the point within the circle." (key Masonic symbols)
    [ Albert Pike "Morals and Dogma," 24th Degree, p. 401 ]
    --------------------------------------------------

    Link...http://www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Masonry/freemansonry_conspiracy_within.htm


    There a whole lot going on there besides "Do good to your fellow man".

    Grace and Peace,

    Mike
     
  10. Ben W

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    Just to note that the Freemasons have issued a statment to state that Albert Pike was and is not a spokesperson for Freemasonry.

    Freemasonry, A Definitive Statement. Pg 71

    Rev G.W Potter, R.K.C Pearson Ltd.

    "Pike was largely self educated, an omnivourous reader, particurly in theology, mystiscm and the occult. His voluminous and largley indigestable writings show that he rarely understood what he had read. He was by nature autocratic and believed that he was entitled to issue circulars to all members of the rite, whether they were under his jurastiction or not. He was politley ignored by masonic authority, but some of his writings are still quoted by critics as if repitition would make them more credible. He is certainley not widely read nor a recognised authority on Freemasonry".

    Suggesting that Pike was or is a spokesperson for Freemasonry is like suggesting that Ellen G White Adventist Prophet or Herbert Armstrong Worldwide Church of God founder is a spokesperson for the church.

    All of the 33 degrees of Freemasonry are published online. They are a good Primary Document to consider. That is their supposed teaching yet I am unable to discover any reference to satanism or any type of patway or assurance of Salvation. My brother in law who joined them was actually encouraged by them to go back to church which his membership had lapsed for many years and to be a dillagent worker in it.

    I defend Freemasonry and that may surprise people. Go back and have a look in the acrchives of the Baptist Board and you will see posts by me condemning Freemasonry. What happened was that I found that when I sought out the actual documents to support the claims that were being made was that I had no ammunituion to back them up.

    This is not so uncommon though. When the SBC made a statement on Freemasonry, one of the Elders who researched it actually became a Freemason after discovering that much of what is spoken about it is in fact wild rumours and outright lies.

    I would encourage anyone who is concerned about the Freemasons to read "A Pilgrims Path" by John J Robinson. He wrote this book as an outsider to Freemasonry and it shows the falsness of the claims made against it. After writing the book he also joined!

    [ April 13, 2004, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Ben W ]
     
  11. Eladar

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    Jim,

    If your reason is doctrinal, then why do you consider the God of Freemasonry your God? It would seem to me that once one realizes that the doctrine is different, then the God they worship is different.

    If your oath was not made to the God of the Bible, then are you required to keep it?
     
  12. Turbeville

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    Jim,

    That is the only reason to leave is from the doctrine standpoint....a personal reason could be anything such as getting sick, change in working hours, spending more time with the family, etc...the doctrine of Christianity separate us from the other religions including freemasonry.

    When you were saved and Jesus became your Lord and Savior..did you keep that a secret? I you knew something was spiritually harmful to your brothers in Christ would you keep it a secret from them? I would hope not!

    Great Commission instructs us to go out and tell people about the Good News of the Gospel. The Masons are taught to keep the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man a secret!
     
  13. Ben W

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    "The Masons are taught to keep the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man a secret"

    Do you have a Primary Document to back that up?

    Where does it state that in the Freemasons writings? I would like to have a look at that.

    You are fully aware of what a Primary Document is? One that is from the source, not a secondary or a tertiay document.

    It is one thing to make a claim, yet let us have a look at some actual proofs to back them up.
     
  14. Turbeville

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    Ben,

    The "Fatherhood of God" and the "Brotherhood of Man" are foundational teachings of Freemasonry. Those phrases are often carved in the stonework of Masonic temples. A glimpse of the Masonic concept of God is provide by examining those phrases.

    What does freemasonry mean by the fatherhood of god and the brotherhood of Man? Masonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names. The Masonic belief in monotheism is explained in the INDIANA NONITOR AND FREEMASON'S GUIDE: " Monotheism is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but his conception of of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry is not concerned with theological distinctions. This is the basis of our universality(page 41, 1993 edition)."

    In other words one God for all men and He is the father of all men even if they are from different religions..Also all with go to the celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.

    This is not what my Holy Bible says! We are born as enemies of God because of our sin nature and not part of His family until we repent of our sins and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
     
  15. D28guy

    D28guy
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    BenW,

    I posted some information based on the writings of Albert Pike. Here is part of it...

    And here is part of your response to me...

    Well, here is part of an adress which contradicts that, concerning Albert Pike. It was given at a Supreme Council Biennial session in 1989. A link to the whole thing will follow...
    --------------------------------------------------

    On October 17 this article was given by Dr Hutchens as an address to the 1989 Biennial Session of The Supreme CounciL 33ퟴouthern Jurisdiction, USA., meeting in Washington, D.C

    Like a few equally illustrious predecessors, such as Leonardo Da Vinci or Francis Bacon, Grand Commander Albert Pike led not a single life, but many. He was an explorer, so he knew privation; a journalist, so he knew the excesses of the press; a lawyer, so he knew the constant threat of despotism that the law entails; a teacher, so he knew the importance of education; a general, so he knew the horrors of war; a poet, so he knew the soul of man.

    His contributions to so many fields vividly demonstrate the productivity possible from the wise use of time. If he knew the exaltation of success, he also knew the meaning of misfortune. The civil war estranged him from his northern roots, so he knew despair; he was a father who outlived eight of his ten children, so he knew sorrow; he once possessed great wealth but died a virtual ward of the Scottish Rite. Yet he was a Mason, so he also knew the unrivaled power of the human will.

    His life exemplified the teachings of the Craft, and all of us might envy his steady dedication to those principles. Few, if any, of us have lived so completely. He came to the Craft relatively late in life, at the age of forty, so Freemasonry can take little credit for his character. What it did provide, however, was an outlet for his energy and a vehicle for his creativity.

    Though a man of many talents, no aspect of his life received such enduring concentration as his work for the Scottish Rite. He found it in ruins and left it a stately temple to the dignity and rights of man.

    Above all else our illustrious Brother Pike taught us the meaning of leadership. No fairweather friend of the Craft, he assumed the mantle at its lowest ebb: its membership nil, its ritual in chaos, it charities nonexistent.
    Albert Pike assumed the intellectual leadership of the Scottish Rite even before he was elected as Sovereign Grand Commander. To him was entrusted the rewriting of the Rituals of the Degrees which either never existed in any coherent form or which had suffered degradation at the hands of the unlearned.

    Albert Pike had a subtle motive in his rewriting of the Rituals, seeking to do more than simply improve the presentations of the lessons of the Degrees. He wished to establish the Scottish Rite as an agent for the intellectual development of the Craft. This goal was furthered by the preparation of a foundational literature for the Rite embodied in the new Ritual and a series of lectures entitled Readings, Legendas, Liturgies and Morals and Dogma. These were further supplemented by The Book of Words and the Ist and 2nd Lectures on Masonic Symbolism.

    By the exercise of the proper tenor of leadership, he built upon the strength of Scottish Rite teachings, expunged the Ritual of its adversely political and sectarian character and set the Rite upon a course of growth and development that clearly had as its intent to make the Southern Jurisdiction the single most influential body of Freemasonry in the world.
    He sought this goal by a steady application of strength and determination, mitigated by patience and self-control. He never forgot that ours is a volunteer organization, utterly dependent upon the good will and commitment of the membership who give to it time which deprives their employment, family, church and community of a portion of their talents. But he as well understood how that commitment of time and talent bore fruit in the character of the man, making him a better employee or employer, a better father or husband, a better churchman or citizen.

    Brother Pike set forth certain precepts to guide the Mason in the conduct of his life. These may be found in Morals and Dogma in the Entered Apprentice Lecture as the ten commandments of Masonry and in the Prince of Mercy Lecture as the nine great truths of Masonry. But as Martin Luther noted, ''Precepts show us what we ought to do, but do not impart to us the power to do it.'' Pike's unique contribution was to impart to us also that power--the power of just government, the power of collective action, the power of truth.

    This power is manifested in our actions. He reminded us that reward accorded to merit is a debt; without merit, it is an alms or a theft. From him we learned to make change without creating destruction; to practice charity without fostering dependence; to lead without tyranny; to counsel without criticism.
    It is difficult to reflect upon the man without

    wondering what he would think of our present edifice, the foundation of which he laid. It is certain that he would find no fault with the extensive system of charities that has evolved over the years. He probably would have tolerated the changes in emphasis responsible for the rapid growth of the Scottish Rite in this century. After all, great charities require a broad membership base to support them. He did not hold the rules he devised for the government of the Rite to be inviolate; he changed them often himself.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Link...http://ncmason.org/book/STB-JU90.htm

    It appears to me that those in "the Craft" think very highly of Albert Pike.

    And here again is some of what they spoke so highly of in that 1989 session...

    Grace and Peace,

    Mike
     
  16. Turbeville

    Turbeville
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    Amen, Brother!
     
  17. Ben W

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    I am not sure that you are fully understanding what I am driving at here my friend, great articles, yet not primary documents relating to Freemasonry.

    Are the articles authorised by a Grand Lodge? Do they represent the beliefs that are taught to all Freemasons? Can they prove that to be the case?

    Let us suppose that we want to prove that the famous "Luciferian Doctrine" statement by Albert Pike is indeed taught to Freemasons today, which in my research on the matter I have found not to be the case. Would it not be unreasonable to look for it in the official writings of the masonic lodge by the way of there degrees that are taught?

    Look at it this way, Herbert W Armstrong founder of the Worldwide Church of God wrote various books on British Israelism. Teaching that some of the lost tribes of Israel ended up in Scotland and went to England and Ireland, and resultingly anyone whose ancestors come from there is a part of the nation of Israel.

    We can quote pages and pages of Armstrongism, but does that make it correct? How is it that Herbert Armstrong proves British Israelism to be the case? The fact is that his teachings are in fact what we would term heresy based on the fact that the doctrine of British Israelism promotes quite serious racism in the church.

    Yet lets assume that a Baptist is debating a Muslim on theology forums. The muslim denounces him for his doctrine on British Israelism and rightfully denounces it as false. Yet the Baptist has never had anything to do with it. Sure Herbert Armstrong called himself a Christian and had a huge radio following of his teachings, yet he and his interpretations are not a part of the church. Yet are in cases belived to be by outsiders of the church.

    Albert Pike wrote volumes of books about all sort of weird and wonderfull stuff. Yet his name and his writings are not the Primary texts of Freemasonry. The 33rd degrees were around hundreds of years before he ever existed. He can write whatever he sees, yet his work is provable from primary text making it a jumble of his opinions and ideas.

    So if Freemasonry teaches some type of Luciferian Doctrine, where is it stated in their degrees or the things that are stated as landmarks of the order?
     
  18. Eladar

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    Ben,

    It seems that you are falling for the same trap that many people fall into. Instead of judging the organization based on what it teaches, you judge it by what it claims to be.

    Both Jesus and Paul warn us not to believe what is claimed, but judge by what is taught. If the gospel is different from the one found in the Bible, then it is not of God. If the gospel is not of God, then it is of Satan. ***Even if the source does not claim it is of Satan***
     
  19. D28guy

    D28guy
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    Eladar said...

    I get the same impression. Its like when I am dealing with Catholics. You can give then reams and reams and reams of evidence that the CC promotes Mary worship. They say "We dont promote Mary worship!"

    And when pressed they say their reason is...

    "Because we say we dont worship Mary"

    Well, or course they are going to say that!

    Did Moses, when he came down from the mountain and saw the idolatry, wait and ask the Israelites..."By the way, are you worshipping this golden calf, or not?"

    He saw what they were doing. It was evident for all to see what they were doing.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  20. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Just go right ahead and show me in the Masonic Documents where it teaches Satanism, Luciferian Doctrine or Occult Practices.

    How about showing me in Masonic Documents where a Promise and Pathway of Salvation is given for its members.

    It is not unreasonable to expect evidence for or against an organisation to come from its own documents, in this case its own degree teachings.

    Otherwise we are talking about secondhand information that can not actually be proved to be correct. That is actually in opposition to the Ninth Commandment which is "Thou shalt not bear false testimony against thy neighbour".

    What is being alleged is that Christians that join the Masonic Fraternity are into Satanism. That is a pretty big thing to alledge. Yet if it has actual proof then it should be dealt with. Yet if it is a claim that can not actually be satisfactorly proven, then it is false testimony.
     

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