Freewill and OSAS

HP, we are:

Justified (by faith in Christ, who has fullfilled the law and satisfied God's wrath against sin.

Sanctified (this is the process by which we grow and mature in Christ. It continues until our physical death)

Glorified (this is when we are redeemed and receive glorified bodies)

This is salvation in it's complete form.

But you are justified only once. You are justified for all eternity. That's why it's called "eternal life" not temporary life.

Christ did the "works" (fulfilled the Law)

Your righteousness is as filthy rags even after you're saved. They have no merit in securing your salvation or maintaining it.

As believers we will bear fruit, but each one of us will bear a different amount.
Mat 13:8 "But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

This is part of the sanctification process. We will either gain or lose rewards at the judgement, but our eternal salvation is never at risk.

When we sin, we do not lose our salvation, but God chastizes us in this life.
Hbr 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
Hbr 12:8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
Hbr 12:11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.


Hp, since you believe it's possible to lose your salvation, is it possible to be saved again?

How do you know when you've crossed the line? How disobedient do you have to be? One sin, two?

 

You have stated well what the "OSAS" POV "needs to have found" in Matt 18. Which is that the unforgiving servant REMAINED forgiven - but had "some discipline added" as a "corrective measure".

I have also stated that the Arminian position that consideres OSAS to be merely man-made-tradition would "need" to find that Matt 18 explicitly states that the "original debt" is once again "owed" by the unforgiving servant. Because when what WAS OWED is "ONCE AGAIN" owed - we have "forgiveness revoked". Words that say "Until he should REPAY ALL that WAS owed"

Now let's look to the "details in the text" to see if the objective unbiased reader will see in this scripture example "forgiveness revoked" or "forgiveness RETAINED though some discipline is ADDED". We are looking for "he continued to be free of all that WAS OWED"

This is where "the details in the text" will lead the reader to "truth".

Matt 18
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, ""Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?''
22 Jesus said to him, ""I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

23 ""For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared[/b] to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 ""When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
25 ""But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 ""So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'
27 ""And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 ""But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, "Pay back what you owe.'

29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave,I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

in Christ,

Bob

 

John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 ""If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

You have done well in making the point that the OSAS POV needs to find that this text does NOT indicate that branches IN CHRIST - are being "taken away".


John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away

 

Once again you point out that the need of OSAS is to find that nothing but the good ground "produces life" -- nothing else produces growth.


#1. What is not alive "can not wither away".

#2. Dead ground does not "spring up" nor "grow up" - only a living plant does that.

That which "grows" is alive.

#3. Dead ground is not "choked by weeds" rather "living plants" are choked by weeds - and remain in an weakened state so that they they do not bear fruit.

Luke 8
5"The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up.
6"Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
7"Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out.
8"Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great." As He said these things, He would call out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear



Matt 13
Behold, the sower went out to sow;
4and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up.
5"Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.
6"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7"Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.
8"And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty



Mark 4
3 "Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow;
4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up.
5 "Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil.
6 "And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.
7 "Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop.
8 "Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold."

 

I agree with the idea that salvation can be given up, but If a person gives up their salvation then we have to ask the question: were they ever saved to begin with? I do not believe that we can lose our salvation, because the doctrine of the "security of the believer" is so clearly taught in the Old and the new testiments....

 

#1. You can not give up what you never had.
#2. Saying that the sign or proof that they never had something is that they gave that something up -- is to use a circular argument.