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From 1916 Regarding The KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Dec 16, 2011.

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  1. marke

    marke New Member

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    If you don't think the Textus Receptus is an accurate representation of God's word, why not? And do you have an opinion about what might be considered an accurate representation of God's word today?

    By the way, I'm sorry for burning your carpet. I never know who might get their feelings hurt when I post my own opinions.
     
    #21 marke, Dec 16, 2011
  2. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    KJV-only double standards

    Does a consistent application of your assertions suggest that the KJV translators dumbed down the Bible when they updated many of the same words used in the Bishops' Bible at many places that they may have kept at some other places?

    In some of those places that they kept, the 1560 Geneva Bible already had more up-to-date understandable English, but the KJV translators left the more archaic language in the Bishops' Bible unchanged. Do you study and examine the facts before you post your incorrect or misleading claims?

    It seems that KJV-only posters do not practice what they preach or hold to double standards since they permit the KJV translators to update archaic words in the Bishops' Bible while opposing the same thing in other cases.

    There are some examples where the KJV translators made simpler, updated, or revised renderings in the Bishops' Bible of which the KJV was officially a revision. I could give many, many more examples where the KJV translators made simpler or updated [incorrectly and inconsistently called "dumbed down"] archaic words used in the Bishops' Bible

    Prov. 1:8 doctrine (Bishops) instruction (KJV)
    Prov. 1:12 quick (Bishops) alive (KJV)
    Prov. 2:7 health (Bishops) sound wisdom (KJV)
    Prov. 2:18 paths unto hell (Bishops) paths unto the dead (KJV)
    Prov. 2:20 of such as be virtuous (Bishops) of good men (KJV)
    Prov. 3:10 plenteousness (Bishops) plenty (KJV)
    Prov. 3:19 stablished (Bishops) established (KJV)
    Prov. 4:13 doctrine (Bishops) instruction (KJV)
    Prov. 5:1 prudence (Bishops) understanding (KJV)
    Prov. 5:6 Perchance (Bishops) Lest (KJV)
    Prov. 5:12 nurture (Bishops) instruction (KJV)
    Prov. 6:11 like a weaponed man (Bishops) as an armed man (KJV)
    Prov. 6:23 lantern (Bishops) lamp (KJV)
    Prov. 7:7 void of wit (Bishops) void of understanding (KJV)
    Prov. 8:5 O ye ignorant (Bishops) O ye simple (KJV)
    Prov. 8:10 doctrine (Bishops) instruction (KJV)
    Prov. 8:13 I utterly abhore (Bishops) do I hate (KJV)
    Prov. 8:22 aforetime (Bishops) of old (KJV)
    Prov. 8:23 I have been ordained (Bishops) I was set up (KJV)
    Prov. 9:16 is ignorant sayeth she (Bishops) is simple (KJV)
    Prov. 9:17 privily eaten (Bishops) eaten in secret (KJV)
    Prov. 11:9 The dissembler (Bishops) An hypocrite (KJV)
    Prov. 11:13 A dissembling person (Bishops) A talebearer (KJV)
    Prov. 11:14 there is wealth (Bishops) there is safety (KJV)
    Prov. 12:4 A huswifely woman (Bishops) A virtuous woman (KJV)
    Prov. 12:6 talking (Bishops) words (KJV)
    Prov. 12:7 God overturned the estate of the wicked (Bishops)
    The wicked are overthrown (KJV)
    Prov. 12:19 dissembling (Bishops) lying (KJV)
    Prov. 13:4 shall have plenty (Bishops) shall be made fat (KJV)
    Prov. 14:28 confusion of the prince (Bishops) destruction of the prince (KJV)
    Prov. 15:4 frowardness (Bishops) perverseness (KJV)
    Prov. 15:28 studieth his answer afore (Bishops) studieth to answer (KJV)
    Prov. 15:33 right science (Bishops) instruction (KJV)

    Prov. 16:31 crown of worship (Bishops) crown of glory (KJV)
    Prov. 17:9 procureth love (Bishops) seeketh love (KJV)
    Prov. 17:22 make a lusty age (Bishops) doeth good like a medicine (KJV)
    Prov. 18:1 will sequester himself (Bishops) having separated himself (KJV)
    Prov. 18:8 slanderer (Bishops) talebearer (KJV)
    Prov. 18:10 is in safegarde (Bishops) is safe (KJV)
    Prov. 20:11 known by his conversation (Bishops) known by his doings (KJV)
    Prov. 20:19 bewrayeth secret counsel (Bishops) revealed secrets (KJV)
    Prov. 22:28 fore elders (Bishops) fathers (KJV)
    Prov. 23:4 Take not over great travail to be rich (Bishops) Labour not to be rich (KJV)
    Prov. 23:8 shalt thou parbreak (Bishops) shalt thou vomit up (KJV)
    Prov. 26:1 unseemly (Bishops) not seemly (KJV)
    Prov. 28:17 be a runagate unto his grave (Bishops) shall flee to the pit (KJV)
    Prov. 28:17 succour him (Bishops) stay him (KJV)
    Prov. 30:9 Lest peradventure I being full (Bishops) Lest I be full (KJV)
    Prov. 30:25 emmets (Bishops) ants (KJV)
     
    #22 Logos1560, Dec 16, 2011
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the translators of the KJV 1611 actually stae in the preface that they undertook to bring theBible to the English readers of their day, updated/modernized it to be understood better?

    And that they realised that their own version was NOT perfect, nor only version?

    Think IF alive today, they would have appreciated the NKJV/Nasv etc as building on the foundation they had built upon themselves!
     
    #23 JesusFan, Dec 17, 2011
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    No one here ever said that the TR is bad, just that some of us hold that the CT is better to base a translation of grom...

    We have NO problem with KJV as seen as a good version, nor if one prefers to use it...

    problem is with TR ONLY Greek text, or KJV ONLY version for today!
     
    #24 JesusFan, Dec 17, 2011
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think that if anything could turn me into a KJV-onlyist, it will be threads like this. Why on earth would I listen to a German telling me what English is difficult and what isn't? Let him worry about German translations!

    I would sooner listen to Jonathan Swift: 'You, my Lord [Bishop] who are so conversant with the sacred writings, and so great a judge of them in their Original, will agree that no translation our Country ever yet produced, hath come up to that of the Old and New Testament; And by the many beautiful passages, which I have often had the Honour to hear your Lordship cite from thence, I am persuaded that the Translators of the Bible were Masters of an EnglishStyle much fitter for that Work, than any we see in our present writingsm with I take to be owing to the Simpilicity that runs through the whole.'

    Or to the Professor of English at Oxford University who called the KJV, "The noblest monument of English prose." Or to Lord Shaftesbury, one of the greatest 19th Century Evangelicals, a great friend of Spurgeon and President of the Bible Society, who declared in 1870, opposing the revision of the Bible, that the KJV, "Has passed into universal acceptance and there has nestled into the hearts of men for 250 years."

    Churches that use the KJV exclusively in Britain include the Metropolitan Tabernacle, which is probably the most successful Reformed church in the country. It certainly has the largest children's work in Britain, teaching 600 or so young people every Lord's Day from the KJV. Many are converted each year so that the church grows constantly and steadily. I could also mention a church in Exeter, quite near to me which has gone from an attendance of six when it started to around 50-odd today. http://www.eiec.org.uk/index.html The Bible is very faithfully preached and explained from the KJV.

    I seldom use the KJV except at those churches where I am asked to peach from it, which I am always happy to do. I much prefer to deal with the occasional language difficulties of the KJV rather than the faulty translations of some modern versions.
     
    #25 Martin Marprelate, Dec 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2011
  6. marke

    marke New Member

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    I'm not familiar with the CT, but have done extensive study of the TR and KJV, which is the basis for my confidence in the KJV.
     
    #26 marke, Dec 17, 2011
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today Steve?

    His English was much better than many native English speakers,I dare say. And what in particular did you find untruthful in his piece? I think everything he said was on the mark.

    I really think that the KJV is not characterized by simplicity. Tyndale's was written in a more simple style than the KJV which is known for its fancy flourishes.

    "The occasional language difficulties of the KJV"? Actually the language difficulties of the KJV are rather pervasive.


    rather than the faulty translations of some modern versions.[/QUOTE]
     
    #27 Rippon, Dec 17, 2011
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, I am sure I can find someone who will say the same thing about the NIV, ESV, NASB, NKJV, CEV, Amplified, etc. Opinions are like souls, everyone has one. Me thinks you have too big an axe to grind in regards to your anti-KJV stance.


    Quixote/windmills??????
     
    #28 convicted1, Dec 19, 2011
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Only in a more limited manner could the same thing be applied to the ESV,NASB,NKJV. It would not nearly apply to the NIV,certainly not the CEV.The Amplified is a whole nother critter.
     
    #29 Rippon, Dec 19, 2011
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, the KJV has withstood the test of time, being 400 yrs old. I know you do not like it, and you're entitled to your opinion. But, as for me, it's the best one out there! And yes, I have an ESV and the Hebrew/Greek Interlinear 4 volume set by Jay Green. These are both very good reads, but give me the KJV anytime.
     
    #30 convicted1, Dec 19, 2011
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I think Tyndale deserves more credit for all his groundwork. He has been shortchanged in all the hoopla regarding the 1611. His final edition and the Geneva are better.

    It took a while for the KJV to take hold. Some estimates are almost 60 years. It solidified its place by the mid-18th century. On the other hand,the NIV has been # 1 almost from the start --some 30-odd years ago.

    The so-called KJV is not in my top 20. But it is still serviceable. It's only reasonable that in this day and age many other translations would be considered to be superior to the Anglican version.


    I won't have to give it to you --you already have it.:laugh:
     
    #31 Rippon, Dec 19, 2011
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the original Living Bible sold in the millions during the time...

    Would say it was due to a combo of being much easier to read/understand for new bible readers, being pretty accurate to the originals, and to having Zodervan publishing behind it, as it got into schools and churches for Sunday school curriculums!
     
    #32 JesusFan, Dec 20, 2011
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What in the world are you talking about JF? I was speaking of William Tyndale and the KJV,and then you started talking about the old Living Bible. You quoted my whole post while ignoring the contents.
     
    #33 Rippon, Dec 27, 2011
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    was just saying that just as the NIV outsold the KJV, so did the original LB for awhile...

    Didn't mean was better than KJV, but outsold it due to some of the reasons that allowed for the NIV to do same thing!
     
    #34 JesusFan, Dec 27, 2011
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    My post and the OP have nothing to do with the NIV or the old Living Bible. Why bring them up?
     
    #35 Rippon, Dec 27, 2011
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    So what if it's 18 months old?

    That's right My. Pieper. And that last line is very true. Why do many English-speaking preachers not speak in the language of their favorite Bible translation;whether KJV,NKJV,NASBU or ESV?
     
    #36 Rippon, Jun 6, 2013
  17. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    I believe you hit on what bothers me about this thread. Why is Rippon so concerned with what bible others use. I believe he suffers from a type of intellectual OCD where he is obsessed about this issue.

    I have attended several churches where half the church used the KJV and the others didn't. In spite of this this, members of these churches never had a problem with each other.
     
    #37 Robert Snow, Jun 6, 2013
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