From the beginning of what?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. billwald

    billwald
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    From another thread:

    Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    A murderer from the beginning of what? Did God intentionally create Satan as a murderer?
     
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    No, He intentionally created Satan with free will, just like all His other sentient beings.
     
  3. billwald

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    How do you extract that from the text?
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

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    I extracted it from the text that relates how Lucifer was a high ranking being in heaven who chose to rebel against God and got kicked out of heaven. God didn't make him rebel; he freely chose to do so, just as Adam and Eve freely chose to do. "The devil didn't make them do it", they chose to disobey God.
     
  5. DaChaser1

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    Found a murderer abd a liar at the time that hechose to rebell against God!

    God created him perfect in all his ways, but He also allowed for potential evil
    to happen, and satan freely decided to do as he saw fit!

    God needed to have evil in creation in order to bring to pass the Cross and eventually a glorious recreation, that he would redeem back man and creation to his glory, but satan fulfilled that role as he desired to do!
     
  6. WestminsterMan

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    Poor ol' satan. I guess he was doomed from the beginning. Seriously, God did not create anything evil. Evil is a state of being - a state of REBELLION against God and not the atrribute that you say God needed.

    WM
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    From the beginning of the world. And it appears that Jesus is saying that he was a father at that time from the beginning. A Father of who ?
     
  8. DaChaser1

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    God 'needed" a Judas to betray jesus in order to fulfill the scriptures, but Judas still did that willingly!

    God "used" satan in the same sense, as the Devil willing chose to become enemy of God, and yet God also had him already predestined in His master plans!
     
  9. Michael Wrenn

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    I agree, and it's stuff like this that makes me know that Calvinism is the most deplorable, detestable, abhorrent theology that was ever invented by a murderer and persecutor.
     
  10. billwald

    billwald
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    God says someplace in Psalms that he does good and he does evil. I can never remember the verse numbers. One of you should know the scripture.
     
  11. plain_n_simple

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    Absolutley could not agree more.
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

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    Wow, people on here seldom agree with me, and especially not that much! :)
     
  13. convicted1

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  14. DaChaser1

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    Does God use Evil acts and persons to accomplish His will?

    yep!

    Does God cause calaimity to happen at times?

    Yes!

    is God sovereign at all times?

    Yep!

    Calvinist God same One as in the Bible, how about yours?
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

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    Nope, can't find him in mine. :) The God in my Bible is the God of freedom, not fatalistic determinism.
     
  16. DaChaser1

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    Your god is one in your image, but Not one described of in the Bible!
     
  17. billwald

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    Is Job in your Bible?

    God kills people in a game between himself and Satan.
     
  18. Michael Wrenn

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    That's an insult and a lie.
     
  19. DaChaser1

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    Whywould that be?

    Your view of God is that He is not really sovereign in all things, isn't it?
     

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