Fruits of Calvanism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by samarelda, Apr 7, 2006.

  1. samarelda

    samarelda
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been reading with interest many of the Calvanist/Arminian discussions here. To say the least, I find Calvanism very confusing. It also seems that most Calvanist's entire goal in life is to promote Calvanism. I came across a sermon yesterday that put it all into perspective for me. It is lengthy, but well worth the read.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.ambassadors.edu/PresidentsCorner/Fruits_of_Calvinism.pdf
     
  2. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Samarelda,

    I am glad that you are reading about this issue. Let me encourge you though to read and learn straight from the horses mouth- that is learn about Calvinism from a calvinist and Arminianism from an Arminian. You are wrong that the whole goal of the Calvinist is to promote Calvinism. This false idea is commonly shared by those who disagree with Calvinism but have not taken the time to actually learn what Calvinists really believe (like Ron Comfort does here).

    I went to ABC, I strongly disagree with Ron Comfort's message, though I love him as a brother in Christ and appreciate his ministry in my life. His sermon here not only uses poor hermenutics, but is simply a rehash of Dave Hunt's book "What Love is this?"- a book that was dishonest and full of mis-quotes in order to paint a false picture of Calvinism.

    I wrote a response to Ron Comforts message, perhaps I will post if I have the time to go through it and clean up the grammer.

    Again I appreciate your willingness to know the truth, but I encourage you to study the Scritpures dillegently and you will see that sovereign grace is biblical. And ask a Calvinist if they real believe some of the things Ron Comfort and anti-calvinists like him say. You will be surprised by what you learn.

    God bless
     
  3. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Probably one of the better things you can do to learn how calvinists really approach Christianity... you could read Spurgeon.
     
  4. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is very good advice. It is always best to study in that manner. Many just take what other people say and apply it as their own belief.
     
  5. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great article, except for the end where he equates "personal holiness" with social drinking.

    As far as reading Spurgeon, if you are confused now...just wait!
     
  6. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent point Scott! I would also include Jonathan Edwards and the history of the Great Awakening.
     
  7. samarelda

    samarelda
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been researching both sides of the issue. I love doing research--it is almost like being in Bible College again. The article just helped me to put into words what I have come up with through my research. I am not very good with words and if I can borrow someone elses words to express my thoughts, then I will do so.

    About Calvanists goal being to promote Calvanism; I say that from what I have observed-not in what I have read about. It is not true of all, but seems to be true of the majority--from my observations anyway. I have known several Calvanists in my day. Maybe I just know the wrong ones.

    When I read the posted article it was like "Yes, this is it--this ties together everything I have read on both sides of the issue."

    I appreciate differing viewpoints on this board. It gives me things to think about and study. I am not a person to argue--it isn't my nature. But I think a lot and read as much as I can and I like to know why I believe what I believe. Most of the time I just can't put into words why I believe a certain way. As stated, I am not good with words. I can have all these thoughts organized so well in my mind, but when they come out through speech or writing it is all wrong. I think it is a Norwegian thing. :(
     
  8. James_Newman

    James_Newman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have to agree with the author that Calvanism is a way to slide man's works back into the salvation equation. And then cover it with a coating of 'irresistable grace', like that changes works into something else.
     
  9. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great article?

    First of all it was a message he preached and secondly it is full of false assertions and claims.
     
  10. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Taking a quick look at brother Comforts message here are the problems I see with it.

    1). Comparing Calvinists to gnostics. Gnostics were a heretical group that denied the diety of Christ, and to compare men like Spurgeon and Edwards to gnostics is perposterous.

    2). A misrepresentaion of the TULIP accrostic that comes from not getting his deffinitions straight from the source, but rather a thrid party.

    3). Character assaination- claiming that Calvin's Institutes could not possibly be good since he was only in his twenties when he wrote it.

    4). Misquoting or giving partial quotations by men such as Spurgeon. You can make anybody say what you want them to say when you take them out of context. For instance he states that John Calvin does not mention the love of God in his Institutes, well I can show you numerous places where he does mention it.

    5). He makes false claims about Calvinists such as this: "They have no concept that they are hurting the cause of Christ and dividing the body of Christ.
    Calvinists are not builders; they are destroyers." Was Charles Spurgeon, William Carey, Judson, and Edward and others destroyers?

    He also says: "In forty-two years of ministry, I have been in thousands of churches. I have never been in one thatwas built on Calvinism." Clearly then he does not realize that Baptist history is dominated by men of Calvinistic leaning and that almost all of the early church planting done in America as by Calvinistic Baptists.

    6). He claims that Calvinists are not evangelistic when nothing could be further from the truth.

    These are just a few problems with Ron Comforts message, besides the fact that the shoddy hermenutics he used to proof text his points is unacceptable.
     
  11. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading and research will give you the fine points of Calvinism and Arminianism.

    What I have learned through discussion and reading on this board alone is the serious christians of either the Calvinist or Arminian leaning is busy about doing what God would have them do. They are both evangelistic. They both believe and perform personal evangelism.Both have pew potatoes they just have different excuses for not doing anything.

    So I part in saying, "Pray as if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on you."
     
  12. Me4Him

    Me4Him
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why not try reading the bible and asking the "Holy Spirit" to teach you???

    The problem now is man trying to interpret God's writing rather than letting God interpret his own writing.
     
  13. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't follow Calvin or Armin...these are flawed men. In Calvin's case, very flawed, as he murdered those with whom he had theological differences. He burned Michael Servetus at the stake, so I would never brand myself with the name of such a man. Christian? Hardly!
     
  14. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was when I did this that I began to see the merits of calvinism for explaining the relationship between God's sovereignty, omnipotence, and omniscience as it relates to man's responsibility.
     
  15. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    Calvinism only has it's merits due to the merit men give it.

    All men have the responsibilty to answer to God.

    If it were that men are appointed to never be saved from the foundations of the world, then it would be God's irresponsibilty to have created them for just that purpose.

    It could be no different that God calls men everywhere to repent; and it is man's responsibility to pick up the phone when it is ringing and God knows every man's phone number, why He doesn't even have to call directory assistence!
     
  16. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whatever... as Spurgeon said "Calvinism is the gospel".

    I agree, and so would every other Calvinist on this board.

    God didn't appoint men to damnation, man is a sinner and by nature already damned. God simply saves some of them- those He chose to save before the universe was created.

    God does call all men to repent, but that does nto mean they can or will repent. By His grace many have and will repent.
     
  17. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then with all due respect, your research is faulty. I pointed out why Ron Comforts sermon is wrong. I don't mind if some one wants to disagree with me, but I do mind if that someone is dishonest in his presentation of facts.

    If you barrow thoughts from the wrong source your thoughts will be corrupted.

    I don't know about the Calvinists you know, but the ones i know (and I know many) are not like you describe.

    My concern samarelda, is that you are not thinking objectivly, but rather are approaching things from a subjective standpoint. My challenge to you is read Eph. 1 with a open heart and mind.
     
  18. James_Newman

    James_Newman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's the P in tulip, right? Prank Calling of the Holy Spirit?
     
  19. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's the P in tulip, right? Prank Calling of the Holy Spirit? </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    The majority would agree yours is.
    You pointed out why you BELIEVE Comfort's sermon is wrong.

    BTW, if you want to split hairs, I should have said "sermon" instead of "article". For someone that follows a theology where meanings of words are changed, I would have hoped you would have done the same with my error.
     

Share This Page

Loading...