fulfill and/or fulfilled

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mont974x4, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    I was reading in the Gospel of John today and coming to 19:23,24 where the garments are divided and they cast lots for his tunic and this was done to fulfill the Scriptures. This led me to look at the verses in the Bible with the word "fulfill" and/or "fulfilled" in them. I noticed two things:

    1. The will of men (ex: choosing to cast lots for a tunic) is subject to the will of God
    2. Even the smallest of decisions, the smallest of issues, can illustrate God's sovereignty and His glory.

    This really puts the damper on the whole free will way of thinking.
     
  2. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Not really it supports the Foreknowledge of God. Whom God foreknew He did Predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son. What He foreknew He showed the prophets and they prophesied what would happen at a future time. When that time came what God had foreknown would happen did happen.

    That is why because God Foreknew the choices we would make about salvation He elected and predestined us based on that foreknowledge. That is what we see in this, they cast lots which was done to fulfil prophecy and the prophecy was fulfilled.

    Think about this when they first nailed Christ to the cross they offered Him vinegar mixed with gall to drink and He refused it why? Later He said I thirst and they gave him vinegar mixed with gall and He took it what made the difference.

    The drink was a sedative type drink the gall and vinegar would dull the senses and Jesus needed His senses. Everything that occured on the cross was in accomplishment of prophecy, every saying of Christ everything happening. At the end He took the vinegar and Gall and what did He say?

    John 19:28After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
    29Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    He refused it because He wanted to be sure He knew all had been fulfilled and when it was when He knew all things were now accomplished, He said I thirst they filled the sponge with vinegar and put it to His mouth and He received it and said it is finished, (i.e. all prophecy was fulfilled) the work of Redemption was accomplished and He bowed His head and gave up the Ghost. Christ foreknew everything that would occur on the cross nothing surprised Him and Prophecy was the showing forth of God's foreknowledge of the events that would take place and all occued to fulfill prophecy and prophecy was fulfilled.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    wrong...not at all, He foreknows persons, not choices....for WHOM... He
    did foreknow
     
  4. Winman

    Winman
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    False. The word foreknow is proginosko which simply means to know something beforehand. It is used in 2 Peter 3:17

    2 Pet 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    17
    Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    In verse 17 proginosko is translated "know these things before" and refers back to verse 16 where Paul warns of people who will wrest scripture. How ironic!

    This simply speaks of knowing something before it happens, not knowing someone personally as Calvinism falsely interprets scripture.

    God's foreknowledge is exactly that, knowledge of something before it takes place.
     
  5. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Actually He foreknows persons and choices, yet none effect election as it is He who chooses, and He chooses unconditionally.
     
  6. Winman

    Winman
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    double post
     
    #6 Winman, Apr 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2012
  7. Winman

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    Then how do you explain Romans 11 where Paul speaks of the elect?

    Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

    Paul goes on to explain why the majority of the Jews were cut off.

    Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    21
    For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
    23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

    If election is unconditional, why does Paul warn these elect Gentiles to take heed lest they be not spared? Why does Paul warn them to "continue" in God's goodness if salvation is unconditional? How could these persons be "cut off" as Paul warns? How can those who were cut off be graffed back in?

    Election is conditional upon faith.

    Calvinism cannot explain these verses. If God unconditionally elects persons and passes by others, it is impossible for the elect to be cut off, and it would be impossible for those who were passed by to be graffed back in.


     
    #7 Winman, Apr 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2012
  8. mont974x4

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    grace, faith and repentance are all gifts. He gives according to His will and not based on anything man can offer Him.
     
  9. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    It wold be helpful to remember this letter was written by a Jew to Jews. The Jewish understanding of foreknowledge is directly linked to the idea illustrated in Genesis 4:1 and 25 where the word is sometimes translated as "Adam knew..." and sometimes as "Adam had relations...".
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    How about the word WHOM......does that mean a person ...or an event:laugh::laugh::laugh:

    For WHOM He did foreknow He also did predestinate...i cannot read for you:thumbs:
     
  11. mont974x4

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    Don't get distracted by the argument on foreknowledge. It's God's hand in the actions of people that prompted me to start the thread.

    Act 4:27 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
    Act 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.


    I am sure all those people thought they were making decisions and controlling their own destiny. Many times in Scripture we see some variation of the theme that certain actions took place in order to fulfill prophecy. We cannot escape the fact that at least some of our actions are preordained to occur otherwise God, and His Word, lie.
     

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