Fundamentalisms & Scholarship?

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Fundamentalism and Scholarship?

    I have been following the guys over at Sharper Iron Fundamentalist web blog for a while. I was pleasantly surprised!!!:smilewinkgrin: It has articles, opinions, etc. as you might expect such a web page to have. But they are not the "we are mad at everyone" and the "us four and no more" bunch. They are loving and kind and open in tone and dialog.

    It is in this vein that I ask all who visit this section of the BB to consider a series of articles by Kevin Bauder of one of the "major" or "only" fundamentalists seminaries that is a real academic institution. (Bob Jones notwithstanding!). The article has to do with whether or not Fundamentalists need scholars in their ranks. I think you will find the series quite good as well as refreshing. So here it is. I hope to have some good discussions from both sides of the "fundamentalists fence!"

    http://www.sharperiron.org/

    Enjoy!

    FYI!
     
    #1 Rhetorician, Feb 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2008
  2. paidagogos

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    Rhett, perhaps before you say "or 'only' fundamentalists seminaries that is a real academic institution," you ought to check the two following sites and reconsider your statement in light of these: http://www.dbts.edu/ and http://www.bbc.edu/seminary/.

    I would interested to hear your reconsidered opinion.
     
  3. Plain Old Bill

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    Pinch me I think I'm in love. This guy gets it.:thumbs:
     
  4. Rhetorician

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    Paid Response

    Paid,

    I just said that for a lark. I knew I would get some action from someone. But it was only done in fun not to offend at all. I think you know me well enough to know that.:smilewinkgrin:

    I know the ones you included are good schools too. No harm no foul!

    Paid, I would make a further point. I think that the "Fundamentalist's Movement" actually needs many many scholars to carry on the tradition and to tell the younger generation "what's what!"

    FWIW!
     
    #4 Rhetorician, Feb 12, 2008
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  5. swaimj

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    I've been following Dr. Bauder's articles as well. I agree with him. Fundamentalism needs scholars. Actually, it needs more scholars as it already has some.

    Fundamentalism tends to be a "let's get it done" movement and that applies to all the different strains of fundamentalism, and believe me, there are several different strains.

    In the last 25-30 years, fundamentalism has seen the rise of seminaries within their ranks, and some excellent seminaries. However, they need to heed Bauder's advice and increase the "life of the mind" within their ranks.

    Search out all of Bauder's articles posted on Sharper Iron. He's been writing weekly on that sight for about 3-4 years and he will definitely make you think.
     
  6. Plain Old Bill

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    Fundamentalist scholars need to write serious theology and doctrinal books. They need to get together and put out a couple of really good commentaries.:thumbs:
     
  7. cowboymatt

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    There are many fundamentalist who have written good books and commentaries. Probably the best NT fundamentalist scholar that I know of is Thomas Schreiner. He teaches at Southern Seminary and has written a great commentary on Romans and a great book on Pauline theology. You should check him out.
     
  8. TCGreek

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    Both Douglas Moo and DA Carson are good. BTW, Carson is in a league of his own. Scholar par excellence.
     
  9. StefanM

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    I think the debate hinges on the definition of "Fundamentalism."

    In a classical sense, authors like Schreiner and Carson would be fundamentalists, but I wouldn't consider them Fundamentalists. I think conservative evangelical is a better way of describing them.
     
  10. TCGreek

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    You're correct. I don't think they're Fundamentalists that sense either.
     
  11. John of Japan

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    I'd be very surprised if either Moo or Carson considered themselves fundamentalists even in the classical sense.

    I would urge all not to generalize about Fundamentalism. As I've said several times on the BB, Fundamentalism, even the IFB movement, is quite diverse. Us "old line" Fundamentalists have always respected sholarship.

    In particular the Northern brand of Fundamentalists have had a scholarly bent, and that is the line of Dr. Bauder and CBTS (which dates to 1901, by the way), as well as Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary and Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary, where my son is working on his M. Div.

    Again, there were many noted scholars among the original Fundamentalists of the 1920s-1930s. Just check out some of the names of contributers to "The Fundamentals": Canon Dyson Hague, James Orr, B. B. Warfield, Sir Robert Anderson, etc. Other Fundamentalist scholars of the early days include O. T. Allis, J. G. Machen, etc.

    Having said all of that, Dr. Bauder is right. Fundamentalists need more scholars. In particular, as Rhet aptly stated, "I think that the 'Fundamentalist's Movement' actually needs many many scholars to carry on the tradition and to tell the younger generation 'what's what!'"
     
  12. Rhetorician

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    Stefan Response

    Stefan,

    Good to see you are alive and kickin'!

    Do you "Fundy boys" think that Bauder would consider these you are all naming to be Fundamentalists?

    I know the discussion has tilted that way, but some of these are the leading "Evangelical" minds. I get the idea from Bauder's tone that he would bristle "exceedingly" at mixing and mingling the two categories?

    FYI! FWIW!

    Pray for Union U today please!
     
  13. John of Japan

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    To answer this we have to go back to the "great divide" that occured between Fundamentalism and New Evangelicalism beginning in 1957 (Billy Graham's New York Crusade). Things continued to sort themselves out for quite awhile after that, maybe ten years. From that time there was little contact between most Fundamentalists and the rest of evangelicalism. The wounds were deep and painful on both sides. The primary exception was John R. Rice, who maintained his ties with SBC leaders throughout the years.

    As for Bauder, I can't speak for him. However, Central has a reputation as a militant Fundamentalist school.

    For my part I would include Fundamentalism as a subcategory of evangelicalism--distinguishing New Evangelicalism as a subcategory, also. I would bristle at being lumped with New Evangelicals.

    Linking back to the OP and scholarship, few realize that Dallas had a strong Fundamentalist bent well into the '60's, though I wouldn't consider them Fundamentalist now. Robert Lightner, asst. prof of sys. theo., wrote the best Fundamentalist examination out there of New Evangelical theology in 1965, entitled New-Evangelicalism.
     
  14. StefanM

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    Personally, I would distinguish the groups.
     
  15. cowboymatt

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    Schreiner is at Southern, a fundamentalist seminary and he whole-heartedly embraces it all. Schreiner says that you have to believe in penal substitution or you aren't an evangelical. There may be more crazy fundamentalists, but Schreiner is definitely a fundamentalist.
     
  16. Rhetorician

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    Cowboy Matt Response

    Hey Matt,

    I don't think we have spoken before.

    I hope you are well and enoying our Lord's blessing on your life and ministry. I hope you are seeking, finding, and doing God's will as best you can in your understanding of it!

    You have raised an issue that I may be able to shed a bit of light upon. To say, ". . . Southern, a fundamentalists seminary" is really pushing the envelope IMHO! I am a Southern alum. My MDiv diploma was one of the first that Al Mohler signed. I would grant that it is Reformed. I would also grant that it is Calvin(istic) leaning. I would also grant that it is Evangelical. I would grant that it is Inerrantists commited. But saying that it is "fundamentalitst" is saying way more than I want to grant--if nothing else than for the denotation and connotation of the word used.

    And again, we may need to define the term "fundamentalist" and "evangelical" to clarify the discussion at hand?! If you are saying that The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, Ky is a "fundamentalists school" of the ilk that started BJU et al then I would have to take strong issue with that thinking. If you are saying that some (most/all who teach there?) would hold to the The Fundamentals that were written in response to the 19th Century German Liberalism, then I would say that many/most of us are "fundamentalists" to a fault.

    Many is the time in these type discussions when the term "fundamentalists" is bandied about in a "secondary separation" type of manner rather than a theological manner. I tend to say that that particular use of the terminology is "political" rather than "theological." For the very reason that it defines "who is in" and "who is out" of the particular group with whom I run.

    So we may be pouring out own preceptions and definitions into the words without defining them before we ever have our serious discussions as we are want to do.

    FWIW!
     
  17. swaimj

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    He absolutely would not consider them to be fundamentalists and they would not consider themselves to be fundamentalists.
     
  18. swaimj

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    Schreiner does not embrace "it all" when it comes to the fundamentalist movement that considers ecclesiastical separation to be the "sine qua non" of fundamentalism. Neither he, nor Southern seminary, nor Al Mohler, nor anyone in the SBC is a part of that fundamentalist movement.
     
  19. StefanM

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    Well said.
     
  20. cowboymatt

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    Religious labels are relative. From my perspective Southern and Schreiner are fundamentalist; but that's just because I am a conservative leaning moderate.
     

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