Gagged librarians break silence on Patriot Act

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by poncho, Jun 2, 2006.

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  1. poncho

    poncho
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    Connecticut librarians spoke about their fight to stop the FBI from gaining access to patrons' library records at a news conference yesterday organized by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), and in a subsequent interview with RAW STORY. The Librarians, members of Library Connection, a not-for profit cooperative organization for resource sharing across 26 Connecticut library branches sharing a centralized computer, were served with a National Security Letter (NSL) in August of last year as part of the FBI's attempt to attain access to patron's records.
    The NSL is a little known statute in the Patriot Act that permits law enforcement to obtain records of people not suspected of any wrongdoing and without a court order. As part of the NSL, those served with the document are gagged and prohibited from disclosing that they have even been served.



    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Gagged_librarians_break_silence_on_Patriot_0531.html
     
    #1 poncho, Jun 2, 2006
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  2. Terry_Herrington

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    This is just another infringement by the Bush administration using the guise of the "war on terror" to take away more of our freedoms!
     
  3. poncho

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    Yep and all the neocon followers here abouts can't figure out why they haven't heard of any real civil liberties violations. That's because no one is allowed to tell anyone their rights have been violated. Tell on the government for rights violations, go to jail, neat trick eh Terry?

    And not only that but,

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1149002726873


    Sweet huh?
     
    #3 poncho, Jun 2, 2006
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  4. Scott J

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    Libraries- public or private?
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Where's the privacy violation?
     
  6. poncho

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    Beats me I didn't even know we lost it.
     
  7. Scott J

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    That response didn't make any sense Poncho.
     
  8. poncho

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    Neither did the questions.
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Free society is dependent on the free exchange of ideas. If my choice of reading material is being monitored, one of two things is likely to occur. 1, my choice of reading material will be altered so as to stay out of trouble (romance fiction never got any one shot, right?) or 2, I will be called upon to explain why I read the books I read (the Seven Myths of Gun Control, eh? Go stand in that line.). Neither is characteristic of a free society. Oh, wait, we don't live in a free society.
     
  10. Gina B

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    The Patriot Act has so much stuff in it. Any true patriot who reads it should be appalled. And yes, I've read it.

    One computerized section of a college I know took issue with that part of the act. I heard that they're combatting it by wiping out the computer logs at the end of the day. :thumbs: They also put labels on their phones that they may be tapped due to the Patriot Act. :D

    Go ahead and do research on it, and find out exactly how many people read the Patriot Act before they signed it in. I think you'll be a bit surprised at the answer.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    There was only one question and it made perfect sense. The complaint is that people's privacy is being violated. But so far, there has been no evidence of that presented. So I asked.

    So how it is a free society if certain people are told they are not free to certain information?

    Your choice of reading material is public. People can see what you carry out of the library. They can see what you carry out of the bookstore. Your freedom is not affected in the least by someone knowing what you read or gaining the information. There may be real reasons to be concerned with the Patriot ACt. This is simply not one of them. This has to be one of the stupidest complaints I have ever heard.

    Why would not someone have the freedom to see what you check out of the library? Where is the issue?
     
  12. James_Newman

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    Sure, anyone can look over my shoulder while I check out library books. It's one thing to spy on someone, it's another thing entirely to mandate that the library do the spying for you. Do you suppose that if I went to your local library and asked the librarian to give me a list of every book you had checked out for the last two years, the librarian would give that list to me? Not likely. Nor should they. If the government wants that information they should have to have a warrant.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    How is this mandating the library to spy on you? The library has these records anyway? They aren't spying. Unless the definition of spying has changed.
     
  14. James_Newman

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    Doctors already have your medical records. Is it ok if I take those too while I get your library records?
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Medical records are protected by legal confidentiality. Library records are not.
     
  16. James_Newman

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    So anything that is not expressly protected by a legal act is now a matter of public record? Thankfully, here in Texas my library records are also protected by law.

    http://www.txla.org/pubs/ifhbk.html#PRIVACY

    From the ALA website:
    This is not a new battle. Librarians have had to fight to defend the freedom of American people to read books without fear of government profiling for years.
     
  17. poncho

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    You got it James, it isn't a privacy issue it's a warrantless search issue. The NSL applies to more than reading habits.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    I see no compelling reason for library records to be confidential, especially when it is silly on its face since it is a matter of public record and public knowledge. It is easily attainable information. It's not a warrantless search of any kind. It sounds like a conspiracy theorist's picnic to me.

    So much of what people complain about these days is so patently absurd it is funny. If you are scared to check a book out of hte library because someone might see you with it, then you probably shouldn't be checking it out. Think about it folks. Don't run to the lowest common denominator.

    This is the wrong hill to die on.
     
  19. James_Newman

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    did you even look at what I posted? It is not easily obtainable information, it is confidential and illegal to obtain without a warrant. All these little attacks on your right to due process are starting to add up, Larry. One day you are going to find a big hole in the wall where the constitution used to be. That document is the only thing standing between us and a totalitarian dictatorship.
     
    #19 James_Newman, Jun 3, 2006
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  20. Pastor Larry

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    Of course, I looked at what you said. The information we are discussing is easily available by anyone standing in front of you or behind you in a line. There is no expectation of privacy when anyone can see, and there is no expectation of confidentiality. Those have no basis in teh constitution unless you are willing to rewrite it to include things the author's never intended. I am too conservative for that.

    There are not attacks on my right to due process. I have never been denied due process. I know when I go into a public place what the ramifications are. Now, if they are coming in my house to look at my library books, that's a different issue.
     
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