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Gambling

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Bible Student, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. eric_b

    eric_b <img src="http://home.nc.rr.com/robotplot/tiny_eri

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    You are talking about paying for a service. If I pay you to wash my car or buy a ticket to a game, I get a service in return. Perfectly honest and legitimate. When I gamble, I get neither a service nor a product. I am essentially throwing that money away, when I could otherwise be a good steward of that money and use it for good.

    Eric
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    One could argue that the entertainment value of gambling is the service/product.
     
  3. eric_b

    eric_b <img src="http://home.nc.rr.com/robotplot/tiny_eri

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    Is that what casinos and lotteries advertise, or do they emphasize the chance to become rich? And would people participate in these things just to have fun, if they knew they wouldn't win any money?

    Eric

    [ October 10, 2002, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Is that what casinos and lotteries advertise

    No, that's what people who have gone to places like vegas or laughlin and don't gamble in a sinful manner say. In any event, whether it's casinos that say that or gaming consumers who say that is immaterial. It's still a valid point.

    Come to think of it, here in California, where Las Vegas is 6 hours away, there are frequent commercials for Vegas hotels, and never are there commercials for gambling.

    But let's take this a step back... what about church-run carewalks, 50-50 drawings, and things of that nature? What about promotional contests for prizes that are often seen that say "no purchase necessary"? It's still a game of chance, and you still endup losing money (the cost of a postage stamp). What about football pools? What about when I tell my church friends if the Angels lose, the next meal's on me? Are they engaging in sinful behavior when they expect me to honor such my word since it was made of "sinful" origin?

    No, I go back to my original point. If one budgets money for liesure, and with that one chooses to spend some of it on actual gambling, it's not a sin.
     
  5. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Johnv said:

    If you wager, you do so knowing that losing is a good possibility. When you spend money at sporting events, you are losing money. When you see a movie or pay for a massage, you're losing money. When you go skydiving, or rock climbing, you're losing money.

    Economics 101: purchasing goods or services such as the above is an economic exchange, and is considered a win-win situation. The two parties in the exchange receive something which is, to them, of greater value than that which they gave - be it entertainment, food, whatever.

    Since both parties come out ahead, a fair economic exchange essentially creates wealth. Gambling does not. It simply transfers wealth from the losers to the winners. In doing so it falls foul of the Biblical principle that one ought to earn his living by his own work (e.g. 2 Thess. 3:6-15). Those who lose their money at the casino do exactly the same work as those who win; the only difference between them is that probability favoured the winners. That is an injustice. Of course, in the long run the advantage goes to the house, otherwise no one would ever start up a casino.

    One could argue that the enjoyment of gambling is an end in itself. If so, someone ought to tell it to all those people at the slot machines with their beer cup full of quarters. I have never seen a more bored lot of people in my life than gamblers.

    Furthermore, I have yet to hear the lottery promoted as fun and exciting. The ads encourage the listener/viewer to "imagine the freedom" that winning millions would give them. They exploit a false hope. To an extent the casinos can advertise on the basis of entertainment, but they can only do so by playing up that aspect of the business that is a fair economic exchange, such as the restaurant or concerts.
     
  6. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Gambling and investing are radically different. Investing means you are buying a piece of the company. It is a matter of trust that the company is in good hands, performing a needed service or providing a good product and will prosper.

    Nothing is bought in gambling except the CHANCE to get money or prizes. There is no investment in anything.

    I was asked about spending a lot of money on sports events. We don't. The last time I went to any professional sporting event was when a friend of ours, Sal Bando, was third baseman for the Oakland A's. We went to watch him play. Aside from that, it seems to me that the money spent for sporting events is an enormous waste of God's provision for us.

    How many missionaries and missions and medical centers could be funded off of those millions/billions of dollars that go into professional sports. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of it.
     
  7. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Wow I agree with Ransom. God is good all the time even when we don't recognize it. [​IMG]
    Murph
     
  8. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    It is amazing to me how some who in an effort to support a particular activity will attempt to down play it's dangers by pointing out that it is similar to other harmless activities. Such as switching an alcohol discussion to one of donuts and here by comparing gambling to driving your car. It is also interesting how some of us who endorse one activity may be against another activity while neither of them are strictly prohibited in scripture. I guess I am different than some I hate gambling and drinking, of course I enjoy swimming and going to the beach while some say it is sinful. I think I will go back to "where the Bible speaks we speak" just some observations from the Murph. [​IMG]
     
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    That's the best argument against gambling I've ever read. Great job, Ransom.

    [ October 11, 2002, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Bro. Curtis ]
     
  10. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Let me tell you this story of gaming's stupidity! I have had folks come to my church before--literally begging for food and clothes, rent money, electric and gas("Preacher, they gonna cut my lights off today if I can't get the money!!") Well, you feel sorry for 'um and help bale them out a little bit!! Then you go to the local "Wag-a-Sac" and there their little selves are--standin' in line for the blasted lottery!! The same folks you helped rush their money to Entergy so Entergy won't cut their power!! They're in that lottery line with a "Fish Fed Cat Smile" on their face!!

    Fool me once shame on you! Fool me twice shame on me!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  11. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    It is not for Christians to Gamble for money. Why? because when you win money from gambling there is a good chance that the money has come from an unfortuanate person or a poor family tricked into losing their hard earned money. Which is tantamount to stealing from the poor even if somebody else is a facilitator for you.

    How many families have been broken up an had abuse introduced to them through Gambling? in my city parents have been caught leaving small children in cars for several hours so that they can gamble in the casino. There are others that have lost there houses through the facilitation of the casino.

    When you win money from gambling just thing about who lost it so you could win it.
     
  12. All about Grace

    All about Grace New Member

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    I just hope all the lotto players and gamblers in our congregation remember one thing when they hit it big:

    TITHE!!!!!!!!!!! :D [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I won't be holding my breath ;)
     
  13. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Here's three gambling scenarios to mull over:

    1. Where I work there are a couple hundred employees. Once in a while there is a 50/50 draw (for those who don't know what a 50/50 is, they sell tickets, putting all the money in a pot. The pull a winner at random, and the winner gets 50% of the pot, and the other 50% goes to charity). Our company pays very well, and nobody is taking food out of the mouths of their children when they kick a dollar into the 50/50 pot. In fact, most of the time the charity selected is the food bank, which puts food *into* the mouths of poor families. Also, usually the winner will donate a portion of their winnings to the food bank as well. When the person comes around selling tickets, I buy one if I have a dollar with me.

    2. I used to attend a very strict, KJV-only, independent fundamental Baptist church. In place of halloween, they have a "Fall Festival" with games and stuff in the church. One of the events is a "cake walk": several ladies from the church donate cakes, then participants pay $2 to participate. Several papers, each with a number, are placed face down on the floor in a big circle. The participants walk the circle while music is played, and when the music stops, a number is drawn. If the number drawn matches the number on the piece of paper you are standing on, you win a cake. Not everyone wins a cake. I believe the money collected goes to missions or the building fund.

    3. I live in Canada, but we get some US television stations. I saw a commercial last night from the state of Washington which discussed how a portion of lottery money collected at casinos on Indian reserves goes to pay for equipment at public schools. I'm pretty sure similar things happen with lotto money up here in Canada. Those of you with children in public schools, what are you doing about this?
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Good point. But aren't these people losing it by their own free will?

    Ken
     
  15. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    Their will may have been free, but their money ain't.
     
  16. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    Speaking of gambling, in its broadest sense the term covers a vast region of human affairs.... crossing the street, buying a car (especially 2nd hand), purchasing a bond...

    If the covetousness argument is valid, as it has been herein defined as desiring to possess another's property, then do we "covet" our employer's money because we want our pay? It does belong to them until they pay it. And if we are involved in a trade with someone, is it a violation of this moral law to attempt to get a greater value than we are giving up? It seems we either covet a greater value, or else we are irresponsible in dealing.

    Finally, is God a gambler? If He truly desires that none should perish, but he still let us be born and grow up, then He "gambled" that we would make the right decision, and the majority made the wrong decision. Under strict Calvinism, of course, there was no gambling on His part; He created the majority to be eternally damned with no choice otherwise. Is at least allowing a chance not better?
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) Under Biblical Calvinism, we reject the "God Who Risks" idea of Openness Theology.

    2) Even under non-Calvinist schemes, you have God creating human beings whom He knew would end up in hell. The idea that they had some kind of "free will" choice is small consolation to them. Of course, there is no such thing as true free will after the Fall in the Garden of Eden. We had our only true free will choice in the Garden of Eden in Adam and we failed. Man's unregenerated sinful nature restricts his choices since then.

    Ken

    [ October 11, 2002, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  18. eric_b

    eric_b <img src="http://home.nc.rr.com/robotplot/tiny_eri

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    Gambling implies a lack of foreknowledge of the outcome... if you know the outcome beforehand (good or bad) then you're not gambling. Therefore, the only way you could say God was gambling is if you question His omniscience... I assume you aren't doing that?

    Eric
     
  19. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Ooooh.....GREAT POINT! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker New Member

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    As for me...gambling always felt wrong. You see, the still small voice inside me gives me a real uneasy feeling when something is just not God honoring. Gambling is throwing away money...and if you don't want it...send it my way. I need groceries.

    It just makes me queezy to just blow the doe.

    [ October 15, 2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
     
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