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Gap Theory

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by christianasbookshelf, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Setterfield is oft cited, but is flat out wrong. Setterfield claims that the "Romer" measurement results in a speed light at 301,300. Setterfield claims that this is evidence that the speed of light has slowed by about 1,300 km/s over the last 300 years. But Setterfield's own source for this information directly contradicts this claim, and in fact demonstrates that the speed he measured is identical to the modern value. Claims by Setterfield, as well as similar claims, have been aequately been adequately disproved to the point that Answers in Genesis advises supporters of creationism to refrain from using the claims as an argument.
     
    #81 Johnv, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2009
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Well, what makes you an expert on the subject? Fact is, quite a few secular scientists agree with Setterfield. Some even say Setterfield was far too conservative, and that light was even faster than Setterfield predicted in the past.

    Some secular scientists who believe light is slowing down are physicist Paul Davies, physicist Dr. Joao Magueijo, physicist Dr. Andreas Albrecht, astronomer Professor John K. Webb and many others. These men are not creationists.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Er, not so fast. Davies published a paper in Nature, based on Webb's observations in 1999. Later citations in Nature noted that Webb's observations failed peer review, when it was discovered his observations failed to include additional factors previously observed.

    According to Magueijo and Albrecht, they suggest that the speed of light might have been faster only during the first few moments after a big bang would have occurred. None of these examples support Setterfield's assertions, nor does Setterfield necessarily say they do.
     
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    John

    Whatever. You know, I'm not going to get bogged down in an argument with you. Fact is, many astronomers, physicists, and others in science are seriously studying light slowing down because it has shown merit and answers many questions the Big Bang cannot. You can say what you will, there is documented evidence for it and has been. Setterfield was not the first to put forth this theory, it goes back way before him because other secular scientists saw the same evidence.

    The topic is the Gap Theory. If you believe there was a gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 would you please supply scripture that supports it? I have shown much scripture and discussed how I understand it. I don't claim or believe for one moment that I know everything. If you or others think I misrepresent scripture, show me where I am wrong. I am open to that.
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    You're barking up the wrong tree. I never posted anything in this thread in support of the aforementioned gap theory.

    In regards to your "whatever" comment, the fact is that proposed theories about a changing speed of light have continuously failed the scientific method, sufficiently enough so that AIG advised people not to use it as an argument.
     
    #85 Johnv, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2009
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Look, I like Answers in Genesis, but they are not the final authority on science.

    And contrary to what you say, there have numerous successful experiments both slowing and speeding light up. Here is an article on that very subject.

    http://www.livescience.com/technology/050819_fastlight.html
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Just an aside - Barry's wife Helen was on here for a number of years at BB but left because of all of the arguing. She and Barry are still working hard along with taking care of their son Chris and all of their animals. :)
     
  8. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Yes, I belonged to another forum several years ago she posted frequently on. She was constantly attacked (by Christians) for supporting a six day creation. Most of her critics could barely spell, yet they thought they understood science better than her or her husband.
     
  9. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    The only Gap is where unbelievers want to find a "loophole" to get out of being responsible to God as Judge! Thus Genesis is being questioned like Satan did to Eve in the garden. God spoke and it was! :jesus:
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I remember Helen. You know the old saying, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, She was wise and did just that. Maybe someday I'll do the same.

    Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.​

    Yes, I used to be well read in modern physics but as things got too far ahead of me with books of which there were no end, I wearied of the much studying and left then behind. The last thing I read of any depth was an article in Scientific American concerning the constant C and the heritical and shocking opinion that it might just be a variable.

    HankD
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I liked Helen very much. We always respected each other. Some of her ideas were a little out there, though, such as claims of finding dinosaur tracks along with human tracks, and of there being Egyptian hieroglyphics in Australia. As intelligent and respectful as she was, she said many things that lacked objective credibility.
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Apparently John, you have never watched the Flintstones.


    HankD
     
  13. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Dude, I just about spit out my morning coffee all over my screen in laughter!
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Oops, sorry.

    HankD
     
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I believe it was John who said Setterfield's theory had been disproven, but on the contrary, there has been further research which strongly argues in favor of a decreasing speed of light. Here is one such report. The authors of this report offered a challange to anyone who could prove them wrong and to this day no one has successfully challenged it.

    http://www.ldolphin.org/cdkgal.html

    John, you can ridicule it, but the fact is human footprints have been found with dinosaur footprints in several locations across the world. Here is the site for Omniology. The author of this site was an athiest until his studies proved to him that the Earth is very young and dinos did live with men among many other evidences for a young Earth.

    http://www.omniology.com/delknewmandino.htm
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    In regards to the speed of light change, no such theories have passed peer review. Regarding the link above, the only suggestion that is specific in scope is one person who suggests that the speed of light might have been faster at the start of the big bang, but that faster speed would have lasted for only moments before returning to the current speed. There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests a change in C would have resulted in a big bang several thousand years in the past, and there has been no observations of the speed of light changing in a control group (creationists regularly argue that if it can't be observed in a control group, it's not science).

    In regards to the Delk track, I've seen it before, and even I, with my limited education in science, can tell by eye that the Del print isn't human. The middle toes are not abnormally long and jut out at an odd angle, and the big toe print is much deeper than the other toes. Plus, the division between the ball and toes doesn't line up with human feet. See the instep? It's straight, whereas a human print is curved, and the heel is square where a human print is round. Also, a human carried his weight on the heel, resulting in a deep heel depression. This heel lacks such a depression. This isn't a human print, but it is consistent with animal prints that have human features (even modern animals often leave human-resemnling prints).

    And of course, that's all separate fro the fact that this print is being touted by Carl Baugh (who, like Kent Hovind, got his degree from a diploma mill), the guy who tried to claim the Paluxy tracks were human. But that's a separate ost altogether.

    Now, that said, the fact that the Delk track isn't human, or that no predictable changes in C support a youn universe, neither contradicts nor bolsters a creationist model.
     
    #96 Johnv, Sep 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2009
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    John

    Come on, you believe everyone's footprint looks exactly alike? My 2nd and 3rd toes are very long just like that photo. One fellow I work with is about 4'8", another is about 6'7" and would easily make an offensive lineman with the NFL.

    It is not creationists who have a long history of fraud, it is evolutionists.
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    How about we interpret observered phenonmena through the lense of Scripture rather than the other way around?
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It's not just the fraud, but every time a non-creationist has had to alter their ground of being to accomodate the latest theory a new one replaces it.

    Last I heard it was the string theory, now I believe its some kind of vibration thing with multiple universes.

    In the beginning God created... Much better for this weary mind.

    HankD
     
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Now there's a new thought, eisogesis of the text books rather than the Scripture.

    HankD
     
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