Gay Bishop at Lutheran Church

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Mark S, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. Mark S

    Mark S
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    Is everyone as upset as I am about the Gay Bishop over the Lutheran Church. How can the Lutheran Church do this. In my mind it is the same as the Catholics annointing Gay priests and expecting them to not act out on it. To me this makes them a false church cause they are teaching their flock that this is "OK" in the eyes of God when it is clearly not! While I do think that Gays should have civil rights, I do not think they should be able to marry in a church like a man and woman. For they Love their partners just like a regular heterosexual couple, however they are denied entrace to hospital rooms when their loved ones are gravely Ill, they are told that they cannot enter cause they are not family. So their loved one lies dying possibly calling their name wondering why they are not coming to them and the hospital and their "Rules" make the loved one wait outside like they are a stranger. Well I digress. I feel it is our permissive society that has gotten us to where we are at in this country and I fear for our country if Kerry is elected President.
     
  2. Fishnbread

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    I am sorry but they do not love there partners love is a emotion that God created to give people the need to get married, or reproduce it was not something he made for self gratification, any more than he made hands to murder.
     
  3. LorrieGrace

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    I don't how they can use the parts of the Bible that they like and exclude what they don't like. There is NO way that they can say homosexuality is wrong because from the very top they are saying it is OK.

    AMEN!!!
     
  4. Johnv

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    Sorry, but you're way off if you really think that love is an emotion. Love is NOT an emotion. Love is a decision. When we marry someone, we promise to love our spouses. If love were a feeling, and since feelings are fickle, we would be incapable of making a promise to love our spouses. Feelings are always fickle and continually unreliable. Decisions and commitments are not.
    Here I agree with you. Love is not a tool intended for self gratification. 'Nuff said about that.
     
  5. rsr

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    I'm not aware of any gay Lutheran bishops, though there are some pastors in the ELCA. Perhaps you were thinking of the Episcopal Church?
     
  6. Fishnbread

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    Thank you for educating me I value your input. but in seems as though you misinterpreted what I meant. Love is a decision as well a emotion. an emotion is a state of metal being. That does not mean you can't decide to feel somthing it just means that God can give you things for his purpose.

    PS. Im not backing Gay's John.
     
  7. Johnv

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    Fear not, Fishnbread, I know you're not backing marriage between two people of the same gender. My point is that the emotion we call love is not the same as the scriptural agape. Now, I don't mean to say that feelings aren't important, but we must never put our hearts ahead of our heads. If you lead with yoru head, your heart will follow. When someone says they don't have feelings for their spouse, I say "don't worry, it will pass", and guess what, it always does.
     
  8. Fishnbread

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    Well Amen brother Johnv. I agree with you and im not saying you don't value the importance of emotions. What I was realy saying was that love is from God and is not just for fulfilling are own personal pleasures.
     
  9. Johnv

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    No agruement there, bro!
     
  10. Fishnbread

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    Thank you John. Anyway on the Gay Bishop issue. In my personal opinion based on the Bible they are not even Bishops. In God's sight they are more like a mockery than a Bishop. For one they are in a church of false prophets and two they do not fulfill the requirements of Bishops. People it is time to face the facts those bishop's dont even deserve our attention let alone our support. Does every body here aggree it's bogus.
     
  11. manchester

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    I think he means the Episcopalians/Anglicans, not the Lutherans.
     
  12. Marcia

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    I think we need to clarify that the gay bishop is in the Episcopal Church USA, not in the Lutheran Church. I saw this idea of a gay bishop being in the Lutheran Church repeated on another thread. Get your facts straight!
     
  13. untangled

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    It didn't sound right to me either. Someone might have become confused because the ELCA has merged with the Episcopal church as far as fellowship. Example: if you are ordained in the Episcopal Church USA you are accepted in the ELCA. Now LCMS is a different story they are conservative, truly.

    Just my half a cent. :D

    In Christ,

    B
     
  14. Fishnbread

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    No there is a Lutheran group that allows gays.

    You guys are also correct about the Episcopal church they they are even greater supporters of gays than the Lutherans.
     
  15. Ben W

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    Can you give us a link to the pro gay Lutheran group? That is one lot that I am not familiar with.
     
  16. Fishnbread

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    No Im sorry I can't. I try not to entangle my self with homosexuals and there groups.
     
  17. Ben W

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    With all respect Fishnbread, those claims are quite serious and deserve to be proven, otherwise we get into a situation where things are being alleged without proof, and others can end up then accusing the BB of defamation.
     
  18. Fishnbread

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    Well Ben W you can always go to www.google.com and type in Pro gay Lutheran groups. Im sure you will probably get tons sites involving and promoting pro gay Lutherans.

    P.S glad your skeptical that's a good quality.
     
  19. stevec

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    ...which I did. Try Lutherans Concerned or Lutheran Lesbian & Gay Ministries .

    For the record: Fishnbread, I agree with you. These people, in fact their entire churches and everything in them are a mockery of God. It makes me wonder what they're reading because it sure ain't the Bible.
     
  20. stevec

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    After looking through those sites I wrote this article for my home message board (Christ In Corrections MB):


    In my research of the Episcopal Church USA (cf.) I found they have an agreement with the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) to "trade" pastors and members. In other words if you're a pastor or member of one church you can transfer to the other without any classes/ Baptism/etc. I was just perusing the website of the ELCA and came upon a division of their church--Lutheran Lesbian & Gay Ministries. I took a look to see if I could find a "What We Believe" section or Statement of Faith to justify their practices but could find none. I then found a link to a .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file for a study titled Journey Together Faithfully A Study on Sexuality. I downloaded it to see how they justify open disobedience to God and His Word. Here are some excerpts:


    Regardless of our different sexual orientations or views about sexual orientation and sexual conduct, our unity comes from Christ and his gifts of forgiveness, life, and salvation.

    (...)

    Refer to Romans 1:18–32. Some would argue that what Paul is really teaching in this passage is that many sins flow from idolatry. The fact that same-sex intercourse is included as one of those sins simply reflects the view of his time that same-sex intercourse was a sin.

    (...)

    (Re: The Genesis account of the creation of Adam and Eve):

    It may be that changing sexual orientations are a part of the ongoing creative process...

    (...)

    ...
    (people) in our church who are homosexual remind us all that the lifestyle they want to commend and model is one of loving, publicly acknowledged and sanctioned commitment to one partner anchored in shared Christian faith.

    (...)

    Even as we acknowledge that homosexuality is an expression of sin’s effects in our fallen world, our redemption in Christ gives us grounds for blessing same-sex unions and perhaps ordaining people in such unions.



    See the reference to Romans 1:18-32? That was one of five Scriptural references in this 68 page "study". That's less than one Scripture every thirteen pages! What kind of Bible study is that!? You've read my studies (go toChrist In Corrections MB), if I have fewer than four Scripture quotes per page you may freely assume I fell asleep with my forehead on the "Space" bar. No wonder they condone sin, they apparently don't read the Bible. I was shocked. No, I wasn't, in fact it doesn't surprise me at all. It does, however, disgust me.

    Now if you'll excuse me, after reading all that I have to go wash my hands and gouge out my eyes.
     

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