Gay Pastors?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Sakuras, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Sakuras

    Sakuras
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    Hello Everyone,

    I am curious if anybody would accept a Pastor who was gay? Specifically a person who is gay but does not participate in that lifestyle because of what the Bible says.

    Having many conversations on this issue I wonder about the possibility of this.

    Let's say for the sake of argument gays are born they way they are. God gives various challenges to mankind. Possibly, this is a way to see if one can control their lusts. That while one is attracted to the same sex, they fight their desires and find love through friendship and family, avoiding temptation.

    Would any be opposed to a Gay Pastor who was celibate?
     
  2. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn
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    Sakura, would you accept a pastor who was heterosexual? Not practicing that lifestyle outside of his marriage, but still having that temptation?

    Are people born gay? Yes!
    We are BORN sinners, we are of our father the devil.

    Are people born heterosexual? Yes!
    We are BORN fornicators, we are of our father the devil.

    "Would any be opposed to a Gay Pastor who was celibate?"

    I would.
    A bishop "must be" the husband of one wife.

    The other problem posed, is how will he counsel men? I won't say he can't do so, but that becomes a big problem. Even a married pastor shouldn't counsel a woman, alone.. for example.
     
    #2 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2009
  3. Marcia

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    This is a good question.

    A lot would depend on how the person saw himself or described himself. The fact that he might say he is gay would bother me as far as being a pastor goes. Biblically, he would be an unmarried pastor and should behave that way. Why would he say he is gay? How would we know this?

    It is one thing to have people like this in the church, and another for one like this to be a pastor. I am not sure; it might pose too many issues or be misinterpreted if he identifies himself this way.
     
  4. righteousdude2

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    No Way for a Gay Pastor

    The Bible cuts no slack for a person that lusts and leans this way.

    I'm sorry, but, if we were to believe the person could be gay and not indulge in relations of that preference and leaning, than we would be nothing less than a spiritually blind person; a person of spiritual folly, fooled by the cunning logic and perpetual lies of the devil and his minions.

    Pastor Paul:type:
     
  5. Repent-or-Burn

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    Paul, are you telling me that we treat unmarried heterosexuals the same way?
    There is no difference. You and I both have Inclinations / Desires to sin. If you deny that, you are a better man than Paul and John.

    If he does not lust, if he does not engage in his temptation, then there's no real difference than if he were heterosexual, which he could then lust after women who were not his wife.

    Let's castrate them both.
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    I can't imagine anyone around here who would.

    It violates Scriptural qualifications.

    Well that is a pretty big concession. I don't accept it. While we are all born into sin it doesn't give us a pass to go out and sin without regard for the constraints of Scripture.

    Likewise I don't accept the argument that homosexuals are born that way anymore than I don't accept the argument that all sins are equal. They are not. They are not in the eyes of God, they are not in the judgment of God, they are not in the consequences in life.

    Homosexuality isn't about celibate or not. It is about the decision to continue in a sinful way which all pastors (well all Christians) are called away from. Part of the qualification for church office is to not have an accusation that is lodged against one's life. This is not possible with a homosexual minister.

    Any church that ordains and/or accepts homosexual clergy is outside of the guidelines of Scripture and is anathema for the Gospel. They should be cast out and left to fend for themselves.
     
  7. Marcia

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    But many who have left this struggle every day just like alcoholics. Some do get past it and get married (to the opposite sex). Being saved does not mean all our sinful inclinations and desires disappear.
     
  8. Repent-or-Burn

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    "Any church that ordains and/or accepts homosexual clergy is outside of the guidelines of Scripture and is anathema for the Gospel."

    Careful, bud.
    You Might make that statement about the "pastor" himself, but would you really say that about the entire congregation? Remember though, it is not for us to condemn. The final judgment belongs to the judge.

    "anymore than I don't accept the argument that all sins are equal."

    Copy paste, sorry that these are in caps.
    * JESUS ANSWERED, THOU COULDEST HAVE NO POWER AT ALL AGAINST ME, EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN THEE FROM ABOVE: THEREFORE HE THAT DELIVERED ME UNTO THEE HATH THE GREATER SIN-Jn 19:11.
    * WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! FOR YE PAY TITHE OF MINT AND ANISE AND CUMMIN, AND HAVE OMITTED THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS OF THE LAW, JUDGMENT, MERCY, AND FAITH: THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE-Mt 23:23.
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    Absolutely it is. That congregation would have voted to install the man. That is being party to a sinful event. We are Baptists, we do not have a system where a bishop or denominational elder tells us who is to be our pastor. Thus the congregation is complicit in bringing someone who does not meet the qualifications for pastorate.

    No one here is saying that we are condemning these people to hell. Rather I am saying that we must deal with them like 1 Timothy 1:19-20

    1:19 To do this you must hold firmly to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck in regard to the faith. 1:20 Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
     
  10. Repent-or-Burn

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    G331
    ἀνάθεμα
    anathema
    an-ath'-em-ah
    From G394; a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated (thing or person): - accursed, anathema, curse, X great.

    That's damning them, is it not?
     
  11. preachinjesus

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    If you're gonna quote Greek make sure you know it. :)

    Anathema doesn't mean condemning someone to hell. It means to (as in your definition) to be acursed and excommunicated. We aren't killing them, we are ending our fellowship with them.
     
  12. Trotter

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    Simply, no. I would not allow him to preside over my church, or any other church that I might be involved in. he should be on his knees praying for salvation, not stadning in the pulpit.
    Wrong. Homosexuality is a choice and a sin, just like everything else. Trying to pawn off your own guilt by saying, "I was born this way" won't fly, nor will it cut it with God. If a man could be born gay God would not have called it an abomination.
     
  13. alatide

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    What is your scriptural support for the claim that all sins are not equal in the eyes of God? Would you say that actually committing adultery is worse than just thinking about it when looking at an attractive person? Your statement would lead me to think you would agree, actually committing adultery is worse. But Jesus said:

    Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
    Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    Where in the Bible are sins ranked (except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. the only truly unforgivable sin).
     
  14. Repent-or-Burn

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    Preaching, I quoted the strongs.. The strongs is for idiots like me who do NOT know the greek. ;)

    In as far as you used the word, then.. I have no further argument. I thought you were damning him.
     
  15. Repent-or-Burn

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  16. th1bill

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    ... An open homosexual, practicing or not, can not be a Pastor because a Pastor, Deacon, Bishp and on must be the husband of one wife.
     
  17. Repent-or-Burn

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    :thumbs::thumbsup:
     
  18. Tom Butler

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    I'm just curious. Does anyone here actually know a homosexual who is celibate? Or, does not practice his homosexuality in any way?
     
  19. alatide

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    Rank these four sins:

    * THE ADULTERER AND THE ADULTERESS SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH-Lev 20:10.

    * IF A MAN...or A WOMAN...LIE WITH A BEAST...they SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH-Lev 20:15,16,15.

    * IF A MAN ALSO LIE WITH MANKIND, AS HE LIETH WITH A WOMAN, BOTH OF THEM...SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH-Lev 20:13.

    * BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: AND WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY TO HIS BROTHER, RACA, SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE COUNCIL: BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, THOU FOOL, SHALL BE IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE-Mt 5:22.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    * IT IS REPORTED COMMONLY THAT THERE IS FORNICATION AMONG YOU, AND SUCH FORNICATION AS IS NOT SO MUCH AS NAMED AMONG THE GENTILES, THAT ONE SHOULD HAVE HIS FATHER’S WIFE-1 Cor 5:1.

    How is this statement supported by the preceding scripture?

    Sexual sins, such as fornication, adultery, lying with a beast, and homosexuality, are among the worst of sins.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    * WOE UNTO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! FOR YE PAY TITHE OF MINT AND ANISE AND CUMMIN, AND HAVE OMITTED THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS OF THE LAW, JUDGMENT, MERCY, AND FAITH: THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE-Mt 23:23.

    I tend to agree that the sin of self-righteousness and hypocrisy are among the most serious because of the way Jesus treated the Pharisees. In reality, though, this is not an ordinary sin. It's actually a rejection of Jesus as the Messiah who taketh away the sins of the world. Sinners without Christ are damned because they don't accept Him, repent, and change their ways. They are like the younger brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son until he came to his senses and returned home. The Pharisees were damned for not accepting Him but primarily because they put their faith in their own good works. They loved to point out minor breaches of the law but failed to understand their own sinfulness. They were like the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    I also agree that adding or taking away from the Bible is a serious offense.

    * FOR I TESTIFY UNTO EVERY MAN THAT HEARETH THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD UNTO THESE THINGS, GOD SHALL ADD UNTO HIM THE PLAGUES THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK: AND IF ANY MAN SHALL TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, AND OUT OF THE HOLY CITY, AND FROM THE THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK-Rev 22:18,19.

    It's basically like preaching a false gospel. But the punishment, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, is no worse than the one stated for WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY, THOU FOOL, SHALL BE IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE-Mt 5:22.


    My belief is that teachers and preachers will be held to a higher level of accountability but I don't know exactly what that means.

    In general, I believe that all sin is an abomination to God and even one of those which we regard as minor would be sufficient to damn us to Hell for all of eternity if we do not repent and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior as well as undergo a truly born again experience which is life changing. We will continue to sin but will be more aware of when we do so and repent.
     
  20. Repent-or-Burn

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    Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

    Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    To this:
    "Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me."
    I reply,
    Mat 26:9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
    Mat 26:10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
    Mat 26:11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
     
    #20 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2009

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