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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Winman, Jul 12, 2011.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    ...upon the calling and purpose of God.
     
    #41 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Chosen by God to be in Him, Purposed and elected before the foundation of the earth!
     
    #42 JesusFan, Jul 18, 2011
  3. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    How could I be saved unless Christ died for me?

    How could I believe unless God called me?

    Saying I obeyed and believed the gospel does not mean it originated with me, where do folks get this stuff?

    And obedience is submission. I didn't come up to Jesus and snatch it out of his hand, I have no power or ability to save myself. But when God's word told me I was a sinner, and there is salvation in only Jesus, I submitted to God and came to Jesus in submission, depending completely on him to save me.

    Some have a very flawed and distorted concept of salvation.
     
    #43 Winman, Jul 18, 2011
  4. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    The Spirit enables persons to be obedient, thus we submit, it's not like we did it on our own, we couldn't. He caused us to be capable of being obedient to Him. It's in the Scriptures. One other thing in love; no need for your instigative last line above. Let's keep it Christian.
     
    #44 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Unless the Holy Spirit convicts and quickens us "enough" to get saved, none of us would place faith in jesus Christ, due to being sinners and depraived...
     
    #45 JesusFan, Jul 18, 2011
  6. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    He does it all, call us us, sets us apart by his spirit, leads us to repentance, grants us this gift, enables us to obey. And more.

    All to His purpose, all to His glory. This is why we praise Him and not ourselves at worship.

    - Peace
     
    #46 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Amen!

    Just saying its not like we can decide to accept Jesus any time, as if God on sidelines pleading with us to hopefully make the rightchoice to "allow/permit" Him to save us!
     
    #47 JesusFan, Jul 18, 2011
  8. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    You still are not "in Christ" when you were chosen even in number 2. It doesn't say you were in Christ when you were chosen. That would be reading something into the text.
     
    #48 jbh28, Jul 18, 2011
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Would say option 3

    God did foreknow those whom he would save in/thru/by Jesus Christ, as He would be the One causing them to get saved!
    God based his foreknowledge upon His direct election to save those whom
    He chose to become saved in Christ...

    NOT based on Him'seeing" our faith in Christ...
     
    #49 JesusFan, Jul 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2011
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No, that is what you said not what I said or meant, so "in other words" no.
    like I said, we agreed on that part. Disagree on the first.


    I never said we were born saved, election unto salvation is begging the question.
     
    #50 webdog, Jul 18, 2011
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No it is eisegesis to add the "to be" before the in Him. If you take it at face value we are chosen in or via Him.
     
    #51 webdog, Jul 18, 2011
  12. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    I didn't add that. But thanks all the same. Again, you are not in Christ when you were chosen unless you existed before the foundation of the world. It's very simple. You are either born and saved before the foundation of the world, or you were chosen when you were not in Christ.
     
    #52 jbh28, Jul 18, 2011
  13. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Well, you should have meant that. It is correct.
    Not it's not. You guys just hate giving God the election of our salvation. The context of Ephesians 1 is salvation.
     
    #53 jbh28, Jul 18, 2011
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The "you guys" comment is completely uncalled for. The context of Ephesians 1 is "in Christ", it mentions just that a dozen times in as many verses.

    The challenge has still gone unanswered. Provide just one text stating someone is elect and not yet in Christ. Just one.
     
    #54 webdog, Jul 18, 2011
  15. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Galatians 1:15
     
    #55 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Romans 9:11
     
    #56 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  17. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    sorry, no harm meant. but you do hate letting God choose for salvation, at least that is how it comes across to me. Sorry if it was rude, not intended to hurt.
    of course, never denied this.
    Ephesians 1. You were not born. God chosen you. And I believe Preacher4Truth gave some a couple pages back.
     
    #57 jbh28, Jul 18, 2011
  18. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Ephesians 1:4
     
    #58 preacher4truth, Jul 18, 2011
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    JBH,

    It is not that "we guys" (assuming non-cals) "hate letting God" do anything. From the bottom of "our hearts" we simply, in many cases read the meaning or God's revelation in the scriptures slightly differently. That is honestly and humbly all there is to it.
     
    #59 quantumfaith, Jul 18, 2011
  20. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Yeah, the comment came out worse than it was when it was in my head. It just looks to me, from my perspective, that election seems to be such a hated thing. I understand believe differently based on the Bible, but many arguments are more against election being such a mean thing. I only give credit for God choosing me, not me choosing Him. I'm sorry that it was offensive.
     
    #60 jbh28, Jul 18, 2011
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