Getting saved ONLY because you are afraid of going to Hell

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Apr 3, 2009.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Can anyone give me a NT example of anyone getting saved because they were afraid of going to Hell?

    I need some references for my sermon on Sunday.
     
  2. sag38

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    I would say that it is a good starting point but it is not a means to an end.

    I went to a wake a few years ago. The casket was closed but sitting on top, framed very nicely, was the deceased's baptism certificate. Hope the family wasn't treating it like a fire insurance policy.
     
  3. tinytim

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    I can't for the life of me think of any example of someone coming to Christ in the Bible because they were afraid of going to Hell.

    My mind might be blanking out.. I have been sick the last few days, and the meds have me loopy.. (this sermon might be a dooozy! LOL)...

    Here is what I am thinking.. .

    Coming to Christ simply to miss Hell is very selfish.
    This selfishness is later played out by Christians that only come to church to see what they can get out of church.
    You hear.. "I didn't get anything out of service"... WELLL... you don't come to GET something from God.. you come OFFERING worship!...

    You see churches advertising , "come get your healing, get your blessings.. come to church and receive.... "...

    WE have developed a selfish, greedy, church culture here in America... and I am wondering if it all stems from the statement...

    "Come, get saved, and you will miss Hell"...

    NOW.. I know that those that do not get saved WILL GO to Hell.. but are we using scare tactics to entice people to Christ?

    And for the life of me, I can't find one example of someone coming to Christ simply to get out of going to Hell.

    Using Jesus as fire insurance is selfishness... In my opinion.. (Or maybe it's the antihistamines typing... LOL)
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Is it anymore selfish than coming to God to get anything else ie:

    A worship experience

    A form of entertainment ie a specific style of worship

    Because God loves me

    Because God saved me

    Because I need Him

    Because he died for me

    Because He is my redemption

    To fill a void

    Something is missing in my life

    Does anyone ever come to God simply because He is God and is worthy of our worship? Is our response to Him ever that pure? And does he require it to be? Does God always reject that utilitarian motivation?

    Is it self serving to say "I recognize I am a sinner and Jesus provided the means to overcome that standing before God and I rely on Him and His sacrifice to provide that redemption". And is that statement any different than coming to Jesus so I will miss hell?

    Did Jesus never make an appeal to men based on utilitarian motivations?

    Now this is just my way of looking at it but a sermon on this subject would be incomplete without answering these questions or something similar to them.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Apr 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2009
  5. tinytim

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    Good points...

    Thank God that he accepts baby faith... and we don't have to have the Christian life figured out before he accepts us.

    I just worry that too many of us preachers are scaring people into Heaven.

    I remember a youth camp where a preacher preached HEll... and HELL hot...
    He had the altar full of kids afraid they were going to Hell.

    He could have told them to do anything, and they would have done it.. just to miss Hell.

    It's the same with the Judgment houses during Halloween.. scaring people into religion...

    I am wondering if this technique is hurting the church more than helping it.

    Preachers can walk away proud because the altars are full.. but did they accept Christ, or would they have accepted anything to miss Hell?

    This is where discipleship is important.. Follow up.. make sure that those that come forward TRULY understand what it means to be a CHRIST FOLLOWER....

    I am not doubting that some are truly saved... but I wonder how many are out there that think they are, but are really not.

    BTW, I got saved because I didn't want to go to Hell.. when I was 8 yrs old. I know I was saved.. so I know some do.. but I was discipled and now understand that coming to Christ is not all about me.. .it is about what I can do for him.

    I hope this is making sense.
     
  6. matt wade

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    There's the key! Too many churches or ministries focus on salvation (which is obviously most important), but then forget about discipleship. We just expect people to understand all these foreign concepts the moment they are saved. When I was saved I was blessed to go to a church that had an active and strong, one-on-one discipleship program. I met with another guy from the church once a week for 12 weeks and learned what it really meant to be saved and to live as a Christian. Those twelve weeks profoundly affected my walk as a Christian. I hate to think that others don't receive the same training.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    One of our good buddies (sag38) said something a couple of years ago."It is important to preach on hell, but at the end of the day we do not need to leave people there. Both must be preached."
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Tim, isn't the fact that someone wants to be saved and not go to hell an indication the Holy Spirit is dealing with them?

    Some people don't care if they go to hell--haven't you heard people joking about going to hell when they die so they will be with their friends and have a big party?
     
  9. Marcia

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    I agree with LE.

    I think sometimes not wanting to go to hell comes along with an understanding of sin and/or what Christ did on the cross. There is nothing wrong with seeing eternal separation from God is the cost of sin and realizing your need for Christ.

    Hell doesn't mean anything if one does not have some idea that Jesus may be the only way. I think it's a package deal.

    As soon as I was saved, I mean that very second, I realized that prior to that, had I died, I would have been eternally separated from God. This realization was a part of being saved - for some, it may come the second before being saved, for me it was the second after.
     
  10. tinytim

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    So what you are saying is I am really trying to seperate something that is part of the package deal with salvation..

    That's fair...

    I just thank God that He accepts all who is drawn to Him, no matter how the Holy Spirit draws them..
     
  11. annsni

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    Is one truly saved if they say a prayer to stay out of hell?

    I totally agree with you (maybe because *I'm* not feeling well??).

    I see the whole "soul winning" thing going on (spamderson has a video) and hear them say "We had 75 people saved this weekend!" yet when I asked them about how many of those now attend their church or if any are discipled, I was banned from the site and my posts removed. Their only goal is to get numbers:

    "I fully expect to break the 200 mark this month with souls saved & if we can average around 8 saved per day till the end of the year or 240 a month we can reach the 1000 mark. I think it is possible especially if we can get a few new members to join & go soulwinning regularly before the end of the year.

    We are knocking every door in Miami, Arizona this coming Saturday(6 days from now). I originally set the goal as 50 people to get saved(& changed it to 54 as that would be twice our all time record for a day). Brother Wilson said let's go for 150 saved. We certainly should smash our record of 27. Either way, we are hitting an area where no one else is going to knock. They dont have a soulwinning church in that area so we are going to try to get people saved that would probably never really get much of a chance otherwise."
    (from http://fwbclisteners.ning.com/forum/topics/2069454:Topic:13302)

    What is sad is that they get someone to say a prayer, then they have no further contact with them unless the person decides to come to their church. Hey - I can see people doing the prayer just to get them away from the door! How many are going to say "But I said that prayer with the guy at the door! Yeah, I did nothing more than that, but why are you sending me to hell?" :(
     
  12. Marcia

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    Yes, possibly.

    Also, I see nothing wrong in an unbeliever fearing eternal separation from God and that fear drawing someone to God through Christ. Of course, I think this would be a conviction by the Holy Spirit working on that person (and I do think the Holy Spirit works on unbelievers though He is not indwelling them).

    Unfortunately, now we see an increasing inclusivism and universalism even among Christians. I think this undermines not only God's word but the price Jesus paid on the cross, because when we are saved, we are saved from death, which is the wrath of God expressed in eternal separation from Him.
     
  13. Dale-c

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    I do believe fire insurance is the cause of a lot of false conversions.
     
  14. tinytim

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    Annsni said



    You mean something like...
    Matthew 7:22-23
    (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord
    , Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


    "Look at what I did.. .I walked the aisle, I said the prayer, I went to church, I prayed 3 times a day, I helped in the nursery, I taught the senior adult class..."....

    "What do you mean you never KNEW me?"

    Thanks Ann... that is what I was driving at.

    I run into people that think they are going to Heaven because they came forward one day and "got saved".. when asked why... "Because I didn't want to go to Hell."...

    Being scared of going to Hell does not equal being under conviction.

    It may be a good sign, as LE said.. but that alone is not conviction.

    They have to WANT JESUS... NOT JUST a fire escape.

    Preachers like Ann pointed out are sending people to Hell, because they are confusing people into thinking they have salvation when all the did was say a prayer...

    "Saying a prayer" has taken the place of "baptism".. in the works theology of the church...

    Neither will get you saved.. although both are something you do when you are saved.

    If someone is scared of going to Hell, explain to them what Jesus did for them... Also explain that it is a lifelong committment.. not just a "Get out of Hell free" card. Christianity is a lifestyle... not a "one time, long ago, I walked the aisle, I can take you to the place, said the prayer, got up and cried alot," deal.
     
  15. tinytim

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    Oh, and while I am at it, and before my meds wear off.. just because you hold 50 little kids captive at VBS, and ask them "How many here want to go to Heaven? If you do come to the Altar" and 20 come forward to say a prayer, does not mean that 20 kids are now on their way to Heaven.

    OK.. I feel better now.
     
    #15 tinytim, Apr 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2009
  16. Marcia

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    and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. John 10.28


    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:14-16


    Here in Luke 13 Jesus says it twice:
    2And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?
    3"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
    4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."


    John 6:50
    But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.


    Note verses 21, 24, and 30:
    19So they were saying to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also."
    20These words He spoke in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no one seized Him, because His hour had not yet come.
    21Then He said again to them, "I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
    22So the Jews were saying, "Surely He will not kill Himself, will He, since He says, 'Where I am going, you cannot come'?"
    23And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
    24"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
    25So they were saying to Him, "Who are You?" Jesus said to them, "What have I been saying to you from the beginning?
    26"I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world."
    27They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father.
    28So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
    29"And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." 30As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

    Jesus says "die in your sins" twice in verse 24.


    Do we like to say things like talking about hell is not good because it is uncomfortable to talk about hell? Should not people know the consequences? What is eternal life if we leave out eternal death?
     
  17. tinytim

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    Right Marcia, we have to tell them the truth.. I am not saying that.. I am talking about INTENTIONALLY scaring them JUST to get people to come forward...

    On the flip side, a preacher shouldn't preach 29 minutes on Hell, and only tag Jesus on the last minute as JUST an alternative to Hell.

    There has to be a balance. And people has to hear about the real Jesus before they can make a lasting decision to follow him.

    The following just happened a little while ago here.
    One of my sons smarted me off, and I sent him to his room.
    We were cooking supper, and we were just about finished... I told him that if he apologized he could come out of his room in time for supper.

    HE surprised me... He said, "NO.. it wouldn't be for real.. give me a few more minutes."
    In 5 minutes he came out with tears in his eyes.. and I hugged him.

    NOW.. if he would have came out, and said "I'm sorry" the first time I asked him too, he would have been saying it to JUST get out of punishment... Instead of TRULY wanting to reconcile with me.

    But instead we RECONCILED and he escaped further punishment.

    This is a picture of us and God.

    Is it possible for someone to say to God, "Save me" only to want out of Hell, but not want to be reconciled to God... if so, they don't understand what the term "save" means.. and we should make sure we present the whole picture...

    Of course if someone wants to be reconciled to God.. they will escape Hell also.

    We need to preach Hell HOT.. and the TRUTH about Jesus...equally.
     
  18. Jim1999

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    Cute pet answers, but none answer the question asked............What NT verses show selection of Christ for fear of hell?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  19. tinytim

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    John 6:53-69
    (53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
    (54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    (55) For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
    (56) He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
    (57) As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
    (58) This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
    (59) These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
    (60) Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
    (61) When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
    (62) [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
    (63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
    (64) But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    (66) From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    (67) Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
    (68) Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
    (69) And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.


    Here is a question.. in verse 66, disciples that were following him turned away.. why? They didn't want to accept the truth about Jesus.. they were selfish. They thought he would give them things.. feed them.. but when the rubber met the road, they turned away.

    Why did the ones stay? They knew Jesus had the words of eternal life. (notice they didn't say, "If we leave you will send us to Hell" They took the positive spin on it.. not the negative.. they wanted eternall life.. not just a way to get out of eternal death.

    I know a woman that doesn't want to go to Hell, but doesn't want to go to Heaven either.. .can't convince her she has to choose..

    I am convinced many that are "Christians" today are actually following him because they think they can get something from him.. .

    But the true Christian will tough it out... when it gets tough to be a Christian..

    Being a Christian is not a bed of roses.. we should be honest about this when someone is deciding to be a Christian.. if not, we are painting a picture for them that is not true.
     
    #19 tinytim, Apr 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2009
  20. tinytim

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    Thanks Jim.. I was straying from my own OP..
    :wavey:
     

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