Gibson's "Christianity"

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    A cyber friend (Coyote on the FFF) shared some of James White's "concerns" about Mel Gibson and his brand of christianity.

    1. Mel is a pre-Vatican 2 Catholic and definitely believes, has stated unequivocally, that outside of the RCC there is no salvation.

    2. The book Mel read that inspired him to write the movie was written by a 19th century nun who claimed to have experienced stigmata and had visions of what actually took place at Calvary including the pain Mary suffered as co-redemptrix. These visions were written down and became the book that inspired the movie.

    3. Mel carries a relic from this woman, who is not yet a saint, in his pocket.

    4. According to White, part of the reason that Mel is doing the movie is that he is doing the sacrament of penance, that this is the reason it is Mel's hands that hold the nails, Mel is still seeking relief from the guilt of his sin.

    5. There are elements in the movie which hint at Mary being co-redemptrix and at transubstantiation, elements that will be obvious to a devout Catholic and probably be completely missed by an evangelical Protestant. IOW - they are not overt.

    6. Mel had two priests flown in to the set in Italy to give mass each day to the whole crew. He flew these guys in from other countries, a demonstration of how much Mel is at odds with the Church of Rome - he couldn't find an acceptable priest in Italy.

    7. White believes one of the results of the movie will be the conversion of marginal evangelicals to the RCC faith - one of the reasons he cites is the resurgence in popularity of that 19th century nuns book.

    8. He compares Mel spiritually to a young Martin Luther still in the monastery spending hours in the confessional seeking relief from his sins that the sacraments and the church will never give him.

    We should pray for Mel Gibson and lovingly confront him with the gospel, not just blindly accept him as a Christian because he made a movie we like and said some words we wanted to hear.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. vaspers

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    Thank you for making these facts clear, Dr. Bob. Few Protestants appreciate the many good things Catholicism has done, and continues to do, yet there are also some very questionable things too. One is the masochistic, self-damaging "Mystics" who wore belts with needles in them to inflict pain to their "flesh" which they despised literally. I won't go any further in describing the unspiritual bizarre rituals and practices, including flagellation, of some of these tortured souls. But we should question this form of "Christianity" which Stigmata Emmerich advances. Not rush out to support, and take unsaved people to, something we may regret later.
     
  3. Brother Adam

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    Mel is indeed a sedavacantist, and that puts him in schism with the Catholic Church. He also has other beliefs that are not shared by the Catholic Church.

    I think praying for Mel is fine, though we will probably be praying for different reasons. I don't pray that God will "save" anyone. My plans are not his, thus I pray that God's will be done in Mel's life. I don't accept him as a believer because he made a movie. I accept him as a believer because he confesses to be one and he shows good fruits.

    While we can't know his heart, he does show evidence of being saved: he defends the gospel and stands up for it, he has given confession of his faith on TV, and he shows fruits of the spirits. We have no reason not to believe him.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Real concerns Dr Bob. This appears to be a massive tool for Catholic renewal. I can't judge a man's heart, but he does deny grace by requiring membership in the Catholic church for salvation.
     
  5. aefting

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    Can you give me one example or quote from Gibson that shows him doing that for the true Biblical gospel? As far as I can tell, he doesn't understand the first thing about the gospel.

    Andy
     
  6. rbrent

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    Brother Adam wrote:
    "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." Romans 10:1

    "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers... be made for all men...For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Timothy 2:1-4
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    How is it evidence of salvation to stay in a church that denies the biblical teaching about salvation?? That seems strange to me.
     
  8. massdak

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    i have been looking for information on documented beliefs of mel gibson and i cannot find too much does anyone have any sites about this?
     
  9. Doubting Thomas

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    For what it's worth, Mel did mention on Primetime the other night, that it is possible for people outside the Roman Church to be saved, that it's just "easier" (paraphrase) for Catholics. I'm not saying I agree with the last part of that sentence, I'm just relaying what he said.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    That is a backtrack - there was a link posted here last week where he clearly said that no one outside the church could be saved,including his wife. I think it was on MSNBC.com

    Here is that link GIBSON QUOTE
     
  11. Doubting Thomas

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    Yeah, I think I remember reading a link to that effect as well. Either this is a backtrack, or his original statement was taken out of context. Knowing the media, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter, but you may be right.
     
  12. ScottEmerson

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    I agree. I saw the same thing on Primetime. He said quite simply that salvation is not found within the Catholic church alone.
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    See link above - which does he believe?
     
  14. Brother Adam

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    rbrent, that was classic. I use your posts as examples of "bad interpretation gone wild".

    Everything I said still stands. Pastor Larry, thankfully God looks at our hearts and judges based our hearts, and not the outward skewing of the media.

    I saw a report last week of someone who was saved after watching the film, I'm going to try to track that down.

    Christ4kildare - Unfortunately Mel does not understand the doctrine in which are the words "no salvation outside the church". Catholics believe all those who have been baptized are united to the church of Jesus Christ, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, or whatever.
     
  15. BrianT

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    I think there is a lot of confusion about what Mel is saying. Nothing in that quote says his wife is going to hell, and the word "Catholic" was inserted into his quote. I think he is simply saying, like all Catholics would say, that there is no salvation outside the church - which is what Baptists believe as well - for being saved makes you part of the church. You can't be saved and outside the church, you can't be part of the church and not be saved.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Does anyone have any evidence of where Mel has said ANYTHING like -

    For by grace are you saved though faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast?
     
  17. rbrent

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    Brother Adam-

    Since I did not interpret any scripture in my post but merely quoted the scriptures, someone else - perhaps the Holy Spirit - must have interpreted it to your heart.

    I've had many Catholics (and now, alas, professing Baptists) answer my quotation of scripture with:

    "Well, that's just your interpretation..."

    If Paul prayed for folks to get saved and the scripture commands us to pray for folks to get saved, why do you, a professing Baptist, refuse to pray for folks to get saved?
     
  18. vaspers

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    I thought Catholics, especially Mel Gibson's ultrastrict, Latinized version, taught that if you leave the Roman Catholic Church its a mortal sin--boom: you go to hell. Joan of Arc was accused of beleiving that there was grace outside the Catholic Church. Check out her replies to her Inquisitors. It's not the benign, body of Christ church they propound, its the dictatorial, cultish, Roman Catholic or hell doctrine. Plus Mel doesn't even say that on the Diane Sawyer interview: he says boldly that "we are all God's children {automatically, simply be being human}--Christians just {just!!} have an easier ride to heaven than others." Now if that isn't a crazy, unbiblical idea...? No need for Christ's "passion" if that's the case. Mel is a deeply troubled and confused person. Sigh.
     
  19. Doubting Thomas

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    That's the gist of the quote I remember, but I don't remember it quite the way you do. I seem to recall him saying (or implying) that those outside the church could be saved, not necessarily would be automatically. This is not a view unique to Mel or to Rome, but others have suggested that there may be those who, through no fault of their own, may be saved despite not having heard the Gospel. That some (though by no means all) of these may ultimately be saved by God's grace and mercy based on their response to the revelation they have received is not outside the realm of possibility. It is in that context I interpreted Mel's remarks.
     
  20. Brother Adam

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    I think the media edits interviews Mel gives.
     

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