"Gift of Helps" - God's Word, New and Improved by KJV Translators

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by manchester, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. manchester

    manchester
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    In I Cor. 12:28, the KJV listed three gifts (healing, church government, and tongues).

    A.V. KJV (1611)
    And God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helpes in gouernmets, diuersities of tongues.


    Later, the Word of God was changed to create four separate gifts (healing, helping, church government, and tongues).

    Current KJV (1850)
    And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


    My question is: why did the KJV translators play fast and loose with the Word of God, changing doctrines to fit the fads of the flesh? My opinion is that "help in government" was changed to create a separate gift of "help" in order to teach laity that they should help the church with menial tasks (eg, sweeping floors), even though such gift never existed. Any other opinions out there?
     
  2. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    Which edition is the right translation?
     
  3. Deacon

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    “And God hath set some in the Church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helpes in government, diversities of tongues." (1 Corinthians 12:28, KJV 1611).

    I'm not a Greek scholar by any means.

    Both words are used only once in the NT (in 1 Corinthians. 12:28).
    There are no commas in the Greek. The adverb for “in” is not in the Greek.
    It must have been corrected rather early on in the process.
    By 1706 Matthew Henry’s commentary comments on them as two separate gifts.

    Helps (Strongs No: 484) and means, to aid, help, assist or minister. (support for this as a separate gift may be found in Romans 12:7… service).

    Government (Strongs No: 2941) administration, managing, organizers, leadership.

    Rob
     
  4. manchester

    manchester
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    Deacon, so did the KJV 1611 teach false doctrine, and the later KJV teach the true doctrine?
     
  5. Deacon

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    The term "false doctrine" is so inflamitory.

    If you are so concerned about pointing fingers, learn (teach and preach) the original language so no mistake can be made. The translators of the KJV wrote:
    Their words speak to their humility and service. Oh that we would be so humble.

    Rob
     
  6. av1611jim

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    "This may be supposed to be some cause, why the Translation of the Seventy was allowed to pass for current. Notwithstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews."

    And..."It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but that it needed in many places correction; and who had been so sufficient for this work as the Apostles or Apostolic men?"

    And..."that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sense thereof according to the truth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greek Translations of the Old Testament."
    -------------------------------------------------
    Perhaps when quoting the Translators of the Av, one should be entirely accurate. These quotes show what they thought of the LXX.

    As to the OP? The charge that the AV translators played "fast and loose" with the Scriptures is erroneous. Bordering on slander.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    I've asked the same question about this same passage before -

    When two versions conflict, only one can (by definition) be correct and accurate.

    Does the AV1611 subtract one of the gifts of the Spirit?

    Or

    Do the modern revisions of the AV1611 (like my KJV1769oxford) add one of the gifts of the Spirit?

    And the answer is _____________

    (BTW, we all know that the 'only' sect must begin their famous dance-and-dodge here or admit that there are DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES in these two and one is right/other is wrong. Wouldn't THAT throw a monkey-wrench into their "sham-preservation" doctrine.)
     
  8. HankD

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    They are both true via "advanced revelation".

    HankD
     
  9. BillyShope

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    It seems quite strange that men would teach dispensationalism and then turn around and profess to be amazed that God would allow something as trivial as this to exist for a mere 239 years. I don't know why the same God, Who corrected the early errata with a relatively rapid succession of editions, allowed this to stand for a much longer time. But, I know that He has promised to preserve His Word and I am not about to criticize Him on the matter. And, remember, it is He Whom you are criticizing, not men.
     
  10. BillyShope

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    I, too, am a dispensationalist. Did not mean to infer otherwise.
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    Deacon:

    Amen to that.

    I am not a KJVO person, but, I heard the gospel first among KJVO's and read the Word in KJV Bibles. Still do, though I would oftentimes refer to Young's Literal Translation.

    KJVO adherents are simply people who have been misled into that doctrine by the leaders of that sect.

    If you're looking for someone to hang, go for the originals.
     
  12. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Would the one in the congregation with the gift of helps be the one that sets up the church building for the Sunday morning service, taking care of the air conditioning settings and so on?
     

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