Gifts of the Holy Ghost

I have ask this question before and never Got an answer.
If God only speaks through the Writen word then why do men claim that God has called them to preach or to pastor.
If God cannot speak today (except through the canon of scripture) then how does God call men to preach.
This means that all preachers just choose preaching as a profession rather than being called by God , who cannot call them to preach if he cannot speak today.
I wish someone would give me an answer to this.

 

I was hoping to get an answer by now.
Surely there is an answer to this?????

 

Atestring, I believe God does not speak to the church today outside the written word (no extra-Biblical revelation for the church), but He can and does "speak" in ways such as calling men to preach or others to be missionaries, etc. I think He does this by giving people a burden for something (like a missionary being burdened for a certain group to hear the gospel and feeling a love for those people) or giving a man a strong desire to preach the wrods and conviction that he should be a pastor. This is not speaking in the same sense that God spoke to prophets before or the same way He speaks in visible, tangible words in the Bible.

Also, these calls to ministry are personal - not to the church at large -- and they are not so much words as leadings.

Does this make sense to you?

 

I will echo what Marcia has said...and add...the verses talking about men becoming a pastor says *if he desires*...I believe God gives desires for things that are in accordance to His will. If a man desires to be a pastor,it is a good thing. That would be his *calling*...the God given desire...not a mystical revealing moment.

 

Are you saying that God can only speak to an individual and not to a congregation?
Do you believe that God can call a certain congregation to a specific purpose? Do churches just come up with ideas and bow their heads as an exercise when making decisions, or does God speak and give a church clear direction? Does God no longer speak to the church at large concering the days we live in? I am not talking about God speaking outside the frame work of the Word of God. People that I have been around that believe in the gifts of the Spirit operating today make it clear that no word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, tongue and interpretation is to contradict the written word of God. That does not mean that God doesn't speak to the church at large today. JEsus Christ is the head of the Church and He can do anything he wants to do and He never violates scripture to do it , because He is the living Word. Hi is the word and was the word before the beginning according to John 1:1.

 

I think God leads pastors and maybe churches as he leads individuals, but this is not talking in the sense of new revelation for the church at large. When I said "church" earlier, I meant the church at large; no, God has no new revelation for the church at large. He has said what he wanted to tell us in the Bible -- that is why we have it. If there were new revelation (not talking about individual leading here by the HS) for the church, then the Bible would be insufficient.

 

This information is highly inaccurate. No where is the Scriptures does it say nor suggest that with the completion of the canon ANY of the charismata will cease.

Cessessionists teach that God cannot minister today through the gift of tongues even if He wants to. Obviously enough, such people are placing themselves above God and are in very serious need of both prayer and divine healing. The charismata did not cease with the completion of the cannon; indeed, the fact is that there are reports of the charismata being employed and observed throughout the history of the church. A good, very easy to read book about this is Suddenly … from Heaven by Carl Brumback. Publisher: Springfield, Mo., Gospel Pub. House [1961]. Personally, I am not at all Pentecostal, although I did fellowship with the Assemblies of God on and off for a number of years. I also worked for World Evangelism, a world-wide Pentecostal organization, in an executive position, and I have seen more abuses of the charismata than I care to describe.

 

This information is highly inaccurate. No where is the Scriptures does it say nor suggest that with the completion of the canon ANY of the charismata will cease.

Cessessionists teach that God cannot minister today through the gift of tongues even if He wants to. Obviously enough, such people are placing themselves above God and are in very serious need of both prayer and divine healing. The charismata did not cease with the completion of the cannon; indeed, the fact is that there are reports of the charismata being employed and observed throughout the history of the church. A good, very easy to read book about this is Suddenly … from Heaven by Carl Brumback. Publisher: Springfield, Mo., Gospel Pub. House [1961]. Personally, I am not at all Pentecostal, although I did fellowship with the Assemblies of God on and off for a number of years. I also worked for World Evangelism, a world-wide Pentecostal organization, in an executive position, and I have seen more abuses of the charismata than I care to describe. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for mentioning Carl Brumback: He also wrote a great book by the same publisher called " What Meaneth This?"
As to seeing abuses of Charismata the same can be said about abuses by Baptist, Wesleyans, and others.

 

This information is highly inaccurate. No where is the Scriptures does it say nor suggest that with the completion of the canon ANY of the charismata will cease.

Cessessionists teach that God cannot minister today through the gift of tongues even if He wants to. Obviously enough, such people are placing themselves above God and are in very serious need of both prayer and divine healing. The charismata did not cease with the completion of the cannon; indeed, the fact is that there are reports of the charismata being employed and observed throughout the history of the church. A good, very easy to read book about this is Suddenly … from Heaven by Carl Brumback. Publisher: Springfield, Mo., Gospel Pub. House [1961]. Personally, I am not at all Pentecostal, although I did fellowship with the Assemblies of God on and off for a number of years. I also worked for World Evangelism, a world-wide Pentecostal organization, in an executive position, and I have seen more abuses of the charismata than I care to describe. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for mentioning Carl Brumback: He also wrote a great book by the same publisher called " What Meaneth This?"
As to seeing abuses of Charismata the same can be said about abuses by Baptist, Wesleyans, and others. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the Bath water.

 

Amen and Amen!

Something very real took place at "Stone's Mansion in Topeka, Kansas, and at the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, California.

 

Amen and Amen!

Something very real took place at "Stone's Mansion in Topeka, Kansas, and at the Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, California. </font>[/QUOTE]Something real is still taking place in Church services all over America. This includes Baptist Churches. All over the Wrold the experience that happen at Azusa Street is taking place and this is the reason for the Growth of christianity all over the world. Only in North America is there a decline in the number of converts to Christianity.

 

Atestring,

Please pray for me. In my early years as a Christian I frequently experienced
God working miracles through me and around me. I was the pastor of an inner-city church for 6 years and I saw many miracles of many kinds—true, genuine miracles just like in the Book of Acts! I feel a very strong desire in my heart to pioneer another inner-city church, but I do not know for sure that it is God’s will for me to do it. Please pray that if it is God’s will for me to do it, that He will clearly show me.

 

I will definitely be praying for you that you will hear clearly what God wants you to do.
Until you know what he wants you to do just be steadfast , immoveable , always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain.

 

Thank you!

Amen!

 

Thank you!

Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]I will continue to pray for you
God Bless
Atestring

 

Well I made it to my 1000th post. I promised my wife that once I made it to 1000 that I would spend my time doing other things than posting on the Baptist Board. She has a list for me already.
I have enjoyed it but in the immortal words of Porky Pig,, "THAT"S ALL FOLKS"

 

There are certainly strong arguments both for and against the gifts of the Spirit for today. Will love, hope, and faith still be operative when tongues, prophecy and knowledge cease? If so, then the gifts must cease before the second coming. But do we now know more than the apostle Paul who said that when the gifts cease we will no longer see as in a glass darkly?

1 Cor. 1:6-8 suggests that all of the gifts will be around until the coming of the Lord. Unless we understand the 'coming' here to be the fall of Jerusalem, then such gifts must still be available. 1 Thes. 5:16-23 urges believers to not quench the Spirit, or despise prophesyings, and adds that they may be preserved blameless at the coming of Christ.

I am writing notes on church history, which I hope one day will become a book. The early Baptists have been especially interesting. Hanserd Knollys, a leader among the Particular Baptists, in his treatise entitled The Parable of the Kingdom of Heaven Expounded, (1674) wrote


‘The gifts of the Holy Spirit shall be restored in the last days, … Acts 2:17, 18, And it shall come to pass in the last days (saith God) I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh, etc. This is that which God has promised and will again perform … And it shall come to pass (saith God) in the last Days, I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, etc. 1 Cor. 12:4, There are diversities of Gifts, but the same spirit. As in the Days of the Apostles, so shall it be in the last Days, Joel 2:21, 28, 29, much more poured forth… The Anointings of the Spirit, the Gifts and powerful operations of the Spirit will be upon Virgin Professors [both the wise and foolish Virgins] in the later Days.’

The early Baptists also generally practiced the anointing of the sick with oil, with 'remarkable' healings resulting. If anyone is interested I will post some incidents. Many of the early Baptists, especially the General Baptists, believed in 'subordinate apostles' and in the baptism with the Spirit as a post-conversion event. I have found no mention of tongues or of inspired prophecy, however.

Dean