Gifts of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro.Bill, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Bro.Bill

    Bro.Bill
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    Where in the Bible does it say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for us today?I'm not talking about people being slain in the Spirit, I don't find anyplace that is Biblical?When I think about the tongues issue, my understanding is people heard in thier own languages and many were saved.When I think about healing, I think about when someone is sick that they are to go to the elders of the church and be anointed with oil and prayed over. Miracles, God provides His own miracles when and where He wishes.
     
  2. dean198

    dean198
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    Verses that can be used against the gifts:

    1Co 13:8-13
    The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless; for in part we know, and in part we prophecy; and when that which is perfect may come, then that which is in part shall become useless. When I was a babe, as a babe I was speaking, as a babe I was thinking, as a babe I was reasoning, and when I have become a man, I have made useless the things of the babe; for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known; and now there doth remain faith, hope, love--these three; and the greatest of these is love.


    Note that at least one early church father interpreted this of the second coming.

    Scriptures used in support that the gifts will exist until the second coming:

    1Co 1:4-9
    I give thanks to my God always concerning you for the grace of God that was given to you in Christ Jesus, that in every thing ye were enriched in him, in all discourse and all knowledge, according as the testimony of the Christ was confirmed in you, so that ye are not behind in any gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who also shall confirm you unto the end--unblamable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.


    1Th 5:16-22
    always rejoice ye; continually pray ye; in every thing give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus in regard to you.
    The Spirit quench not; prophesyings despise not; all things prove; that which is good hold fast;
    from all appearance of evil abstain ye

    for being "slain in the Spirit" some appeal to the temple of Solomon when the priests could not keep on their feet because the glory was so thick.


    The early Baptists used to practice the anointing of the sick with oil, with some great results.

    Dean
     
  3. Repent_and_Believe

    Repent_and_Believe
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    Good answer. Some other things to add:

    1. The gifts were in PART a sign to the Jewish believers. The Jews seek after a sign (see Mt 24:1-4). Gen 1:14 - the sun, moon, stars were given partly for signs. (see Joel 2:31, Mt 24:29-31, Rev 6:12). Another sign was that a virgin would conceive and be with child (see Isa 7:14 - note the word 'sign'). Signs are a important part of the Old Testament. However, note, that they are usually connected with unbelief. "Show us something so that we may believe you." Its also a part of the culture too and can be likened to a son wanting to know by what SIGN he will know when his dad will return. His dad tells him to watch for the day when the moon is full. Thus he is telling his son that he will return upon the next full moon. This is the intent of Mt 24:1-4. The Apostles were not in unbelief - they wanted to know when the coming of Christ and the events of Daniel 9 would take place. An example of signs for an unbeliever would be the plagues of Egypt by the rod of Moses, God displaying his power for and unbelieving, unrepentant Pharaoh.

    2. The gifts were given because the scriptures were not complete. I Cor 13:10-11 The word 'that' is neuter and cannot refer to Christ at His coming. It refers to the Logos that would be in written form and available. Did the gift of tongues or knowledge cease IMMEDIATELY after John finished Revelation? Probably not. But at some time after that they did cease. Its not important to try and determine WHEN. Its important to understand WHY.

    3. Much incorrect interpretation of scripture has lead many to misunderstand tongues and give it improper prominence. Paul said that tongues were a lesser gift. Tongues were not an unknown angelic language. They were known languages given to the Apostles to speak so that the hearer could understand the Word of God. I believe that God STILL helps or gives incredible understanding to believers in this area so that they can understand a language to communicate the Gospel. However, this is NOT the same gift of tongues. Note, though, that all TALENTS we have are from God and some have incredible linguistic talent. And yet others have learned languages when they had little to no talent for it - they had CHARACTER!

    I have known of a church that believes that in order for you to be really saved you must be able to speak in tongues. That is what I call the extreme Pentacostal position. Its not biblical and cannot be backed by scripture.
     
  4. Eltrow

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    Would you forbid someone form speaking in tongues?
     
  5. Artimaeus

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    Y'all have gone to a lot of effort to prove that the Bible says that Gifts would cease but, there is a much simpler method. All you have to do is look around and see that no one has any that they can demonstrate as clearly as what the Bible says. The Gifts in the Bible were clearly miraculous otherwise why bring any attention to them. They were NOT inate talents or predispostions which were then polished and improved..
     
  6. Craigbythesea

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    Hogwash! There is absolutely no scriptural support for this false teaching!

    It refers to the second coming of Christ, and is therefore neuter. I challenge you to find even on exegetical commentary on 1 Corinthians that supports your point of view.

    No, they did not cease! Scholars of the history of the charismata have documented that most, if not all the gifts, were in use in individual congregations throughout the history of the church, and the more recent the history, the more numerous are the examples that are documented. Since 1900, we find the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be in use in individual congregations representing every major denomination, and very many small ones, including some Baptist denominations.

    Am I charismatic? No. Do I go to a charismatic church? No. Are there many abuses of the gifts and false gifts in evidence today? Yes. Is God still sovereign and the same that He was yesterday? Absolutely!
     
  7. dean198

    dean198
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    I gave two verses which link the gifts with the second coming....so unless the second coming has already arrived, the gifts must still be available:

    So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 1:7

    Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings.
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God
    your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thes. 5:19-23.

    I have known a few people (I can count them on one hand) who have had an amazing prophetic gift. I also knew a friend whose wife was given a number of languages (real languages, not gibberish), and have had one or two other people share that same testimony. I have seen the dead raised up. We hear lots of these things more in persecuted countries where the believers live much closer to God and need these things more.


    Greek speaking leaders of the early church understood 1 Cor. 13 of the second coming:

    And Paul declares: "Not that I have already attained, or that I am justified, or already have been made perfect. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect has come, the things which are in part shall be done away." As, therefore, when that which is
    perfect is come, we shall not see another Father, but Him whom we now desire to see (for "blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God"
    4:9:2
     

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