Gillispie out at Kentucky

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Paladin, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. Paladin

    Paladin
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    Breaking news at cbs.sportsline.com, Billy Gillispie will not be brought back as Kentucky head basketball coach.
     
  2. Bob Alkire

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    They didn't like Joe B., Tubby or Eddie and Billy now. Many believed Rick was to slick and Rupp isn't making a return anytime soon. I will say I don't think they will ever be happy.

    I'll have to watch my verbiage with my wife with her and her family believing that is the only school to go to or send your children to or to pull for. But I do have a smile on my face, those find folks did it again, ran a basketball coach off. I wasn't a fan of Billy but was of Tubby, and Joe B., all I can say is her we go again.
     
  3. TomVols

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    This was a move that needed to happen to correct Barnhardt's mistake in hiring 'Big Loss Billy' in the first place. Barnhardt's desire to get a coach in quickly after getting spurned by the biggies bit him. He now has to go out and get his man. But will he be able to?

    Donovan already has said no. Sean Miller says he wants to go nowhere. Bruce Pearl says he's a Vol. So what do you do now? Do you go immediately to the fallback guy, Travis Ford, who rumor has it is not friendly with Barnhardt despite Travis being one of the "Unforgettables" and a Kentucky native? Do you get Darrin Horn, who grew up in Lexington and who had SC near the top of the SEC east? Do you try to make a run at the guys who said no last time, like Barnes at Texas, Jay Wright, or John Calipari (who rumors are saying is interested this time)? Capel, Anderson and Grant have the right resume but the wrong skin color. UK has a battle on its hands, and like Alabama's recent football search, can't afford to get this one wrong. UT and FLA have passed you. USC got you this year. At best, you were the fifth or sixth best team in the conference. That won't cut it in Lexington. You have to get a coach to right the ship NOW, or else your first trip to the NIT in almost two decades won't be an aberration. A booster has told me that money will be no object this time. It better not be. You can't afford the cost of getting this hire wrong.
     
  4. EdSutton

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    There is much more to this than is "hitting the airwaves" IMO.

    I doubt all the details will surface, but I believe AD Barnhart touched on it when he said it was about more than wins or losses.

    And it is about a lot more than not signing a contract, as well, again IMO.

    I would like to mention a couple of individuals who also didn't ever sign a contract. They were both high school basketball coaches who took a different job, at what they apparently believed to be a new challenge, in the coaching world.

    One musta' thought that it was OK, 'cause it was the last coaching job he ever took. We'll get back to him in a minute.

    The second must not have been so sure, about his new job, because he resigned from it, and took another coaching gig. Again, things didn't work out exactly to his satisfaction, for he was known to be a bit "hot-headed" and got angry and resigned for a second time. (You can do stuff like this, when you don't have a contract, I'd guess.) But he did take one more coaching job. This one turned out to be his last coaching job.

    You may have heard of him. He was ejected from more games than any coach in history, likely due to his temper. Ring any bells yet? No??

    How about that he won more games, at his level, than any coach up to that time, and is still, to this day, tied for the most league championships. Coached for 22 years, at that level. His name was Arnold, BTW, and he had a few players with such nicknames as "Easy Ed," "Jungle Jim," "Hondo," "Gunner," and "Satch." He was a cigar smoker, too, who would light one up, if he chose, even when in places it was prohibited. Maybe you know even him better by his own nickname - "Red" - Coach "Red" Auerbach of the Boston Celtics. Won 938 games and 9 NBA championships. Yeah I'd say he did fairly well without ever signing that contract, wouldn't you??

    Back to the first one. Well, let's just say he was another coach that won more games, at his level than any other in history, at that time, and at the time I became aware of him, had also won more championships than any other, at his level. I happened to get to meet him in person, once, and saw him coach a few times, in person, as I was a student at the school where he coached (I could have seen him many more than that, but simply didn't like to stand in line for hours, very often, even to get the free 'rationed' student tickets to the games.), saw him several times on TV, and followed his teams on radio for more than 300 games, for more than a decade. He stayed on that job for nearly 42 years without ever signing a contract. Won 876 games, 27 Conference Championships, 5 National titles (4 NCAA, and 1 NIT), and has the second all time best winning percentage as a major college Coach at .822. Oh yeah, he also had the nickname of "Baron" - The Baron of Basketball - Coach Adolph Rupp of the University of Kentucky Wildcats.

    BTW, you can't break a contract you never had, no??

    Rupp and Auerbach. Not too shabby records for a couple of coaches who never had a contract, I'd say.

    Ed
     
    #4 EdSutton, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2009
  5. EdSutton

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    Suggested Coach for the Wildcats

    BTW, I think I should know a bit about basketball and have the perfect Head Coach for the Wildcats. (After all, considering my name does happen to be Eddie Sutton, I also think I can suggest the best Associate Coach, as well.)

    The head guy is Adolph B. Pitino with the top aide Leonard Orlando Lancaster. ;)

    Ed
     
    #5 EdSutton, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2009
  6. JPPT1974

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    I go to church with a friend that, loves Kentucky.
    If she is there, will give her the news!
    She says, that Kentucky fans are really hard to please.
     
  7. TomVols

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    The whole contract issue was, from my "sources," an issue with the stubbornness of Billy G and how he didn't gel with Mitch. The stories about BG's foibles (the feud with the reporter, his brusque way of referring to his romantic life, etc.) also are to be factored in.

    Bottom line: BG was not a winner. That's why he's looking for a job. He could do whatever he wanted if he won. He didn't.

    And no question UK fans are some of the hardest to please in all of sports. They ran Pitino out of town, calling him a carpet bagger, and an outsider til the day he left. Tubby was the wrong color and won (when he did win) with Rick's talent and couldn't recruit on his own (funny how good Rick looked AFTER he left). BG wasn't Tubby and that bought him his equity which quickly dissipated with losses to Gardner Webb, VMI, etc. The joke of a vote to make BG a tie with Bruce Pearl as the 2008 SEC coach of the year might have been a saving grace last year or else we'd have had this convo 365 days ago.

    Calipari has issued a statement that some interpret as being a "Thanks but no thanks." I'm not so sure. I think UK will get more money if Barnhardt brings in more people involved in the search. The big $$$ donors were not as included as they wanted. They will pony up the $$$$ if Mitch lets them in on the thinking. I believe they'll eventuallly get a good name, not a big one, that will be a good hire that will say yes. UK doesn't want the embarassment of several "no" answers like last time.

    UK needs to avoid making a rash jump at Ford or Pelph just because they're an "Unforgettable" and are the antithesis of Billy G.
     
  8. EdSutton

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    My personal opinion (which I have no way of proving) is that this decision to fire Billy Gillespie was that of one man, and it wasn't Mitch Barnhart.

    I'm fairly sure the personality of Billy Gillespie didn't help the situation, however.

    But I disagree that Billy Gillespie wasn't a winner on the Basketball Court. He won more than 60% of his games at KY, including 22 wins, this year.

    He was presented with a low talent pool (allegedly) because Tubby couldn't (or didn't) recruit, and "left the cupboard bare". [I still ain't figured out how Tubby managed to win more games, and had a higher percentage at KY than any other SEC school or coach during his coaching tenure at KY, and how with no good talent recruited, still managed to become the only coach in the history of the SEC, to have an undefeated Conference season, AND win the Conference Tournament, in the same year (2003), which also hasn't been accomplished since. But I'm still working on that one, for now.]

    Caoch Gillespie did lose 4 key players from last year's team, including three starters, and one key reserve (Derrick Jasper) who was a seasoned point player, who transferred. The only potential "aircraft carrier" on the roster (Josh Carter) turned out to be a good presence in the locker room, but never became any force on the court (I suspect due to his own inner doubt, following two injury seasons.), and his biggest threat inside was only a sophomore, who himself, had missed a third of his freshman year with a major injury. Still, he became a strong force, both offensively and defensively, (Patrick Patterson). And both Jody Meeks and Michael Porter had had nagging injuries in the past, that were just serious enough, in both cases, to arrest their development, so that they effectively were in their first full healthful year, as well. The new guys didn't reach KY expectations, as well, apparently.

    IMO, KY's four biggest bugaboos this year were (1.) inconsistent shooting and generally poor clutch shooting (aside from Patterson) (I have called this team "The gang that couldn't shoot straight!") , for even Meeks, who was either first or second in the SEC in scoring average, could have streaky games, (2.) TURNOVERS, (3.) consistent rebounding, and (4.) the lack of having a third, fourth, and fifth scorer on any consistent basis. (Read Harris, Stevenson, and Porter, here, along with the bench.) The defense was actually the best in the SEC, overall statistically for opponents shooting percentage against KY, and this was one of the best teams at shooting free-throws, I have seen in more than 45 years. But the shortcomings elsewhere hurt, and probably could be said to have caused at least 3-4 losses in close games, if not more.

    I'll tack on one more thing - the "Chuck Hayes/John Pelphrey" effect was also missing from this team - that intangible of a player who simply refused to lose, and even though might not have any great stats, could simply force another team to beat him, almost on will-power, alone. This team did not have that intangible, IMO.

    I will be interested to see who comes next, to coach KY.

    FTR, I was no personal fan of Coach Gillespie in a lot of areas, but still "Facts is facts!" as someone once said.

    And I will repeat there is still more to this firing than readily meets the eye, IMO, and even though I have some of my own suspicions, even if they happen to be correct, suspect they will never see the light of day.

    Ed
     
    #8 EdSutton, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2009
  9. Steven2006

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    Good call with Horn, I think he did an even more impressive job at WKU than SC. He is going to have a good career. I wonder if he would want to jump at that job so quickly in his career and so soon after just leaving Western, to sign with SC?
     
  10. EdSutton

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    Local scuttlebutt this evening has John Calipari trading "Tiger Paws" for "Wildcat Claws" tomorrow.

    They just aren't sure whether it's the Eastern (KY) or the Western (AZ) sub-species. :D

    Ed
     
    #10 EdSutton, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2009
  11. thegospelgeek

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    Kat fans (such as myself) knew this was coming a couple of weeks ago. definitly more than just W's and L's, although 14 L's didn't help.
     
  12. ccrobinson

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    Nonsense. I don't believe this for one second. Kentucky finished 22-14 and lost in the NIT. If they were 32-4 and playing next Saturday, would Gillespie have been fired? If they had finished 32-4 and lost yesterday, would Gillespie have been fired? This was about wins and losses. Period. The rest of it is "smoke-filled coffeehouse c***."
     
  13. thegospelgeek

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    Actually the rumors about his job ending were starting before they went on the season ending 2-8 run. If he had won 30 and made a deep NCAA run, yes he would hang around another year or two, but he has offend the powers that be at UK and he was a dead man walking regardless. He wanted to be just a basketball coach and the job at UK is much more. It is an ambassador to the State of Kentucky and the UK alumn (and all their money). If you don't keep them happy, you aint staying.
     
  14. ccrobinson

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    This stuff about being an ambassador and kissing their.. ahem.. rings, is just an excuse so that TPTB can somehow convince people that this was about more than wins and losses. It wasn't. It was about 2 things. #1, Kentucky didn't win enough basketball games. #2, Kentucky lost too many basketball games, including embarrassing losses to schools like Gardner-Webb.
     
  15. EdSutton

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    illy C. out!

    Johnny C. in??

    Hmmm! Assuming it is John Calipari, just how long do you think it will take before the same tune of not enough wins THIS year plays for him, as well? It is fairly obvious most of the average "dyed in the blue" fans do not yet realize that there are more than a half-dozen schools that actually can play the game of basketball, at a fairly high level, these days, and have little intention of ever recognizing that fact.

    What really surprises me about College Basketball these days, is that some Div. I A.D. hasn't yet grabbed the best college BB coach in the state of KY, and perhaps the entire nation, namely 'Happy' Osborn of Georgetown College, who has managed to win at almost an 85% clip (84.86%) over his entire career, a percentage that trails only the late Dr. Clair Bee among college coaches for all time, and 'Happy' has never had the first Basketball scholarship to offer. (By comparison with a few, Adolph Rupp won 82.2%; John Wooden won 80.4%; Clarence "Bighouse" Gaines managed to reach 65.2%; Dean Smith won 77.6%; Roy Williams reaches 80.5%; Rick Pitino, knocks on 74.3 %, Jim Boeheim is at 73.5%; and the much maligned 'Tubby' Smith checks in at 73.3 %.)

    How does Happy Osborn manage to seemingly completely fly under the Div. I radar, here?? :confused:

    Ed
     
  16. TomVols

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    As someone who has lived in or near KY my whole life, and who knows many of the donors and legions of fans, I can honestly say that there is some truth to the "it's more than wins and losses." Rick Pitino won, but he was hated (still is) because he wasn't Blue enough. Tubby won, but he wasn't white enough and was a Pitino asst. You cant just win at UK. You have to win AND be from there AND kiss babies AND do the rubber chicken circuit AND be willing to recruit only KY boys (unless you can buy the Memphis recruits) AND do a thousand other things that the string pullers say.

    One of the bigwigs was not consulted by Barnhardt when BG was hired. BG was invalidated from that moment on. The memo/contract dispute didn't help. The loss to GW started off on a wrong foot. Barely making the dance made it worse. The loss to VMI and the fold down the stretch did him in. The fracas with the reporter and the stories about his Bobby Knight antics made the doing in immediate. It's a miracle they didn't fire him before the NIT.
     
    #16 TomVols, Apr 1, 2009
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  17. ccrobinson

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    Maybe so, but it still starts with losing basketball games. Whatever Gillespie's shortcomings were as a coach, they would have been tolerated if his team had won. They didn't, so he was out.

    Blue enough or not, Pitino wasn't fired at Kentucky because his teams won games and went to the Final Four multiple times.
     
  18. TomVols

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    Barnhardt said today BG was fired because he never signed a contract. Yeah, right.
    Pitino didn't want to leave UK. The stories and ancedotes from his inner circle are well put forth. He loved living in the Bluegrass and enjoyed the limelight of being the biggest thing in town. But he knew he wasn't wanted. He got tired of hearing about how he was the "outsider" and would never be respected. Some even resented that he was successful and would make Rupp look bad.

    Ever since Joe B Hall was sent packing, UK has been waiting for Rupp to rise from the dead, or some asst someone forgot about would come back and lead the Kentucky born starting five to Wooden-like dominance. Hasn't happened yet, but that doesn't keep many rabid and check-writing Cat fans from the anticipation.
     
  19. ccrobinson

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    If that were true, they would have fired him a year ago. This is just silliness.


    Interesting. I hadn't seen those stories.
     
  20. EdSutton

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    The above is simply not accurate. And I can assure you, I do know whereof I speak. However, due to the simple fact that I could possibly be betraying some confidence, and cannot personally ask the source for permission to give said source, I will let it go at this. I can however, stake my own reputation on this statement I just made.
    This is somewhat true except for one small detail. Coach Joe B. Hall was not "sent packing" in any sense, but retired, and his retirement caught virtually everyone by surprise, including then AD Cliff Hagan and President Otis Singletary by surprise, both of whom were very strong backers of Coach Hall, the attitude of some "rabid" UK fans, notwithstanding. And I believe AD Hagan asked Coach Hall to reconsider his decision, without success. In fact, it is now actually known that Coach Hall intended to retire a season earlier (meeting a personal goal to retire from coaching at the age of 55, FTR), when he thought his team should actually win the NCAA tourney, but changed his mind after the horrendous second half against Georgetown, when UK hit an unbelievable 3 for 33 from the field, and managed to lose a game they should have won.

    Significantly, in an act of symbolism, in his final game at UK vs. St. Johns, coached by 'Little' Louie', Coach Lou Carnesecca, Coach Joe B. Hall wore a brown suit for the first and only time in his entire college coaching career of more than 500 games, in an unspoken tribute to his predecessor, the late Coach Adolph Rupp.

    Ed
     
    #20 EdSutton, Apr 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2009

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