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Discussion in 'Politics' started by Matt Black, Jun 12, 2006.
What planet is this woman on? The sooner this dreadful place is closed down the better.
"These people are despairing because they are being held lawlessly," he said.
"There's no end in sight. They're not being brought before any independent judges. They're not being charged and convicted for any crime." That view was supported by British Muslim Moazzam Begg who spent three years in Guantanamo. He said of the camp's inmates: "They're in a worse situation than convicted criminals and it's an act of desperation."
Excuse me while I get out my hankie.
3 men are dead. At no stage were they charged with any crime, brought before a court of law. We don't know of what crimes they were accused; in fact there are reports that one of them was shortly to be released without charge.
By their own choice.
Chase'n those virgins, doncha know?
No wonder people look at Christians like we're all hypocrites. We are!
Indeed WE are.... :laugh:
==I hate to break this news to folks but there are suicides in prisons/jails in the United States all the time! Nothing new! In fact one just occured in our small town jail a few months ago. Do we go calling for it to be shut down? Of course not! This is not a good argument for the shutting down of the prison. What happened at Gitmo happens in jails all over the country.
1. Any suicide in prison is a cause for concern.
2. Unlike many of the other prison suicides alluded to, these guys had not been convicted of anything.
I would hope as Christians we would be concerned about this tragedy.
I think the jerks should thank us! If they wouldn't be in that "country club" they would probably have been killed by some 500 lb. bomb. raise:
I think those suicides are the equivalent of suicide bombers. the latter blows himself up to take down as many victims as he can (martial strategy, if you will) the former kills himself to raise public opinion against the enemy government (political).
And you know that this was their motivation how, exactly?
No virgins for common suicides, doncha know. They chose eternal Hell over Gitmo hell. It seems that being held for years on end without knowing what would ever become of them was too much for some.
Jerks? There are poets, students, farmers and taxidrivers, sons, fathers, brothers, being held for, well, we and they don't really know why...More than a few were sold for the bounty. Some were in the wrong place - their own neighborhood - during a round up.
Were you being ironic or sincere in your profound lack of compassion?
Oh they were poets, well in that case lets let them all go. The only thing the world needs is more poets and then we could all live together in peace and harmony. Excuse me while I barf.
I don't know if these are criminals or enemy combatants, but they are certainly one or the other.
If they are criminals then I think would should charge them with a crime, try them in a court and then send them to prison. If they commited their crimes in other nations like Afganistan or Iraq then they should be sent back there for prison. We want Iraq to become self sufficient so our soldiers can come home, let them worry about keeping these guys fed.
If they are enemy combatants that is something different. Typically enemy combatants are held until peace is declared and then they are sent home (American POWs in Korea and Vietnam not withstanding). We will ever be able to declare peace in the war on terror? I don't know. If we release them will they kill Americans again? Probably so. So do we keep them forever or execute them? The only realistic solution I can see is give them back to the Iraqi government (or Afganistan if thats where they came from) and let them decide what to do with them.
In the meantime Gitmo is no worse than most American prisons and certainly much better than most foreign prisons. Suicide is a problem in any prison. They are you know, prisons. People get depressed and suicidal.
How do you know this?
Whoopsie, double post!
I take it you don't care for poets.
Although one would think so, hope so, one would be wrong to conclude so. Don't you pay any attention to what is going on in the world beyond talk radio?
Common criminals were not transported to Gitmo.
Um, "enemy combatants" is a brand new term thought up by the Bush admin to circumvent the Geneva conventions, so there is no "typical" treatment. POWs are distinct from "enemy combatants" according to Morales; the former are treated according to the GCs, while the latter are treated however we feel like treating them. More than 500 have been released already without charges and without hearings. The authorities determined they were neither criminals nor combatants. Why were they held?
You haven't the slightest idea who they are, yet you condemn them on ignorant assumptions.
Most prisoners in American prisons had actual charges brought against them which they were allowed to dispute. They had access to lawyers. Many of them even had trials - all of them had hearings. I haven't heard that any of them were held incognito for years without knowing the accusation or without being allowed to confront the accuser. Most of their families know what became of them. Not so the Gitmo prisoners.
I wonder if they knew that.:smilewinkgrin:
==Wrong. The guy who killed himself in our local JAIL, not prison, had not even been to court. He had just been arrested that very night for a somewhat minor offense (ie..not murder, etc). Also just because a person has not been convicted of anything does not mean they are innocent and deserve to be set free.
Um, Matt Black said "unlike many" NOT "unlike all", so he is not wrong.
But you're right, too, in your own way - prison and jail can invoke dispair in people. If it has that effect on someone arrested on a not so serious charge, imagine what it must be like to be held on no charges whatsoever for years and years without knowing when - if ever - you'll be released...