"Gladiator", a historical question

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by ChurchBoy, Jul 7, 2004.

  1. ChurchBoy

    ChurchBoy
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    I just recently watched the movie Gladiator. Throughout the movie they referred to Russell Crow's character as "The Spaniard". The movie was set in the year 180 A.D. Did the Spanish people exist as a disctinct group in 180 A.D.? Did the Spanish language exist in 180 A.D.? If not, then how can there be a "Spanish people"?
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    Here's a short History I got from one website.

    Here's the WEB PAGE LINK

    Spain probably existed during the first century as
    tribal kingdoms each speaking their own dialects and with their own distinct accent. Of course, they didn't call their country Spain at that point (though I'm not really sure of that).

    My grandfolks from my father's side are from Spain. My grandpa from Avila, Spain, a Catalan, I think that's what they're called, and my grandma from Toledo but she grew up in Madrid.

    Not that I'm saying Hollywood was accurate.
     
  3. Doubting Thomas

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  4. rsr

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    The Romans conquered Spain as early as the second century B.C. and had the entire region pacified by the end of the first century B.C.

    The Spanish provinces were an integral part of the empire, eventually providing an imperial lineage through Trajan (A.D. 98-117) and his successors.

    Spain initially was divided into two provinces (Nearer and Further Spain) and later into three.

    They spoke Latin; the division of Latin into the various Romance languages occurred later with the waning of Roman power in the West.
     
  5. rsr

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    BTW: The common Roman short sword that conquered Europe and the Near East was the Gladius Hispanicus, or Spanish sword, based upon the iron weapon the Romans found the Spanish tribes using.
     
  6. ChurchBoy

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    So basically there was a "Spanish" people before there was a Spanish language. I see.
     
  7. ChurchBoy

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    Does anyone know when the Spanish language became or was recognized as a distinct language?
     
  8. rsr

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    Well, there were people who lived in Spain (Hispania) who spoke Latin and Vulgar Latin and who wrote Latin. Just as there were people in France (Gaul) who did the same.

    Languages naturally pick up local characteristics when they travel; after the decline of the power of Rome in the West, that tendency became greater as there were fewer opportunities for reference to the standard spoken language. This was not true, of course, of written Latin, which remained standardized largely because of the influence of the Latin church.

    There is no magic date at which Vulgar Latin became Castillian or other Spanish dialects, but it seems that the Reconquista of Moorish Spain that began in the 11th century provided impetus for the spread of the Castillian dialect. Previously, those proto-Spanish dialects had been limited to the small, non-Islamic areas of the peninsula, where they could develop in relative isolation from Latin and other Latinate languages. Early written Spanish was standardized in the 13th century.
     
  9. Major B

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    Well, Yawl,

    Wur now in th period of th standerizin' of Redneck English. Please define th' followin' Redneck terms.

    Hayul
    Hayall
    Eehah
    H'yah
    Jeet
    Joo
    Yawntu
    Ya'll
    U-haul
    widgadidga
     
  10. rsr

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    Thanks so much for your contribution.
     
  11. Daisy

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    from another site:
    History of the Spanish Language & Vulgar Latin
    The Spanish language originated in the Southwest region of Europe known as the Iberian Peninsula. Sometime before the end of the 6th century BC, the region's first inhabitants, the Iberians, began to mingle with the Celts, a nomadic people from central Europe. The two groups formed a people called the Celtiberians, speaking a form of Celtic.

    Under Roman rule, in 19 BC, the region became known as Hispania, and its inhabitants learned Latin from Roman traders, settlers, administrators, and soldiers. When the classical Latin of the educated Roman classes mixed with the pre-Roman languages of the Iberians, Celts, and Carthaginians, a language called Vulgar Latin appeared. It followed the basic models of Latin but borrowed and added words from the other languages.

    Even after the Visigoths, Germanic tribes of Eastern Europe, invaded Hispania in the AD 400s, Latin remained the official language of government and culture until about AD 719, when Arabic-speaking Islamic groups from Northern Africa called Moors completed their conquest of the region. Arabic and a related dialect called Mozarabic came to be widely spoken in Islamic Spain except in a few remote Christian kingdoms in the North such as Asturias, where Vulgar Latin survived.

    During the succeeding centuries, the Christian kingdoms gradually reconquered Moorish Spain, retaking the country linguistically as well as politically, militarily, and culturally. As the Christians moved South, their Vulgar Latin dialects became dominant. In particular, Castilian, a dialect that originated on the Northern Central plains, was carried into Southern and Eastern regions.

    The resulting language was a hybrid because Castilian borrowed many words from Mozarabic, and modern Spanish has an estimated 4,000 words with Arabic roots.

    The creation of a standardized Spanish language based on the Castilian dialect began in the 1200s with King Alfonso X, who was called the Learned–King of Castile and Leon. He and his court of scholars adopted the city of Toledo, a cultural center in the central highlands, as the base of their activities. There, scholars wrote original works in Castilian and translated histories, chronicles, and scientific, legal, and literary works from other languages (principally Latin, Greek, and Arabic). Indeed, this historic effort of translation was a major vehicle for the dissemination of knowledge throughout ancient Western Europe. Alfonso X also adopted Castilian for administrative work and all official documents and decrees.

    The Castilian dialect of Spanish gained wider acceptance during the reign of the Catholic monarchs Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragón, who completed the reconquest of Spain in 1492 by pushing the Moors from their last stronghold in the southern city of Granada. Isabella and Ferdinand made Castilian the official dialect in their kingdom. In the same year the Moors were defeated, an important book appeared: Antonio de Nebrija's Arte de la lengua castellana (The Art of the Castilian Language). It was the first book to study and attempt to define the grammar of a European language.

    The Castilian dialect of Toledo became the written and educational standard in Spain, even though several spoken dialects remained. The most noteworthy was Andalusian, a dialect spoken in the southern city of Seville in the Andalucía region.
     
  12. Cindy

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    Congratulations, Churchboy! One of my all-time favorite movies. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    Daisy:

    That was a good bunch of information.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. Johnv

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    Most definitely. Spanish people are European.

    We often confuse the Spanish with Latinos. Also of interest is that most Latino countries speak Spanish, while in Spain they speak Castillian and Catelonian.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    It's basically a difference of accent and pronunciation, and I think, a few words.

    Those in Spain pronounce the double L as "lya" or "lia". For example, ella is pronounced "el-ya", while Latinos will generally say "e-ya". The Spaniards pronounce the 'z' as 'th' while Latinos pronounce it as 's' in a word. For example, voz (voice) is pronounced by those in Spain as voth (vo') while Latinos tend to say 'voz' as spelled.

    We used to speak Spanish in the Philippines, my grandfather had a newspaper called La Voz de Manila, but, past the age of 10 I no longer spoke it.
     
  16. Melanie

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    Turn off your historical accuracy button for this film if you want to enjoy the ride!!!

    The battle scenes did it for me. Archers, horse riding combatants, fighting at night, yeah right I do not think so!

    The amount of dudes strutting about wearing RED clothing. Nyet, nyet nyet!!!

    Oh an the ultimate doody an actual emperor in a gladitorial ring, whoa honey!
     
  17. mioque

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    "Oh an the ultimate doody an actual emperor in a gladitorial ring, whoa honey! "
    ''
    Ahum.. emperor Commodus actually did that sort of stuff on a regular basis.
    Mind you he was murdered somewhere else, not in the arena
     
  18. rsr

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    So did Caligula, though it's doubtful he had any opponents willing to put up much of a fight.

    Nero preferred music competitions.
     
  19. pinoybaptist

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    I'm picky when it comes to movies. Picky with story lines, picky with plots, and actors, but, Russel Crowe won himself a fan in this film. I think he acted quite well, and I understand the special effects were really state of the art.
     
  20. Melanie

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    Mioque, can you give me a date on Commodus, unfamiliar with this one?

    Caligula, hmm I wonder if his opponents would have been drugged?
     

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