Glenn Beck, Social Justice and the church

==Endorse/defend, I mean the basically the same thing. As Christians we lose our focus when we openly endorse and/or defend someone who is (a) lost and who is (b) a theological heretic (in this case, a Mormon). It does not matter that we may agree with him on many social, political, or moral issues. Jesus agreed with the Pharisees on a number of theological points, but you certainly did not see Him endorsing or defending them. When we endorse and/or defend him we are sending mixed messages to him and to others. Is our main concern the Gospel or is our main concern winning a political debate? When we hold hands with someone like Beck we are not doing anyone any good. People don't need to be given the impression that we think he is a good man who has good ideas. Because, on the most important issue of all eternity, he is not and he does not.

I'm curious why Christians don't spend as much time backing "our own" such as Al Mohler (etc). Why we (generic "we") keep falling in love with a bunch of heretics (Dr. Laura in the 90s, Glenn Beck today, etc) is hard for me to understand. It is so self defeating and it is highly unBiblical.

==I read the op and I am very familiar with the issues around Glenn Beck. The issue here, for me at least, is not so much Beck's political positions. The issue for me is his theological error.

I have a gut feeling, and this is just a hunch, that if Obama, Dean, or Clinton were Mormons many of those Christians who are currently ignoring Beck's Mormonism would be openly complaining about their Mormonism. Just a hunch from long, hard experience.

 

Martin, you will have to be careful, with talk like that you might be called naive around here. :laugh:

 

Then you should have used words that mean the same thing.

What if our focus is to tell the truth about a political or current event?

Could you please give us an example of Jesus discussing politics with the Pharisees?

It depends on the situation.

I disagree. But I'm sure Jim Wallace will be happy to know that you've drunk his Kool Aide.

Why? He does have many good ideas and his commentary is usually right on the money.

So then, you criticize me for agreeing with Glenn Beck because he's a Mormon, but then you endorse Al Mohler, who just compromised the Gospel by signing the Manhatten Declaration with a bunch of Cathoilcs? Do you think that's just a wee bit hypocritical?

Why is it Unbiblical?

Well then, since this thread is about his political views and not his theologicial errors, I guess there's no point in continuing this line of conversation with you.

Google "Mitt Romney". Many Christians supported him.

 

==So it is more important to tell the truth about a political event (etc) than to stand for the Gospel? Our focus, as Christians, should be converting people like Beck not trying to find ways to agree with his political statements which, btw, in 100 years will not matter to him or us. However in 100 years his rejection of the Biblical Jesus will matter to him, I can assure you of that. What is more important?

==I don't believe I said anything about Jesus discussing politics with the Pharisee. What I said was, "Jesus agreed with the Pharisees on a number of theological points, but you certainly did not see Him endorsing or defending them." My point, that you clearly missed, was that agreement on somethings does not matter when there is disagreement on the most important thing (the Gospel). Holding hands with Glenn Beck and you are holding hands with a man who rejects the Biblical Jesus, the Biblical Gospel, and who (apart from repentance) will spend eternity in hell. The only way "moral heretics" like Beck and Dr. Laura can be saved is if we, the Church, stop supporting them are start being honest with them. After all, that is our main reason for remaining on this planet (Lk 24:46-47). Not politics.

==Ad Hominem attack. Very interesting. I don't know, nor do I care, who "Jim Wallace" is. I am talking about putting the Gospel ahead of politics and social issues.

==I said, "People don't need to be given the impression that we think he is a good man who has good ideas. Because, on the most important issue of all eternity, he is not and he does not." and that is your reply? Who care if some of his political/social views are good when his understanding of the truth is so horribly wrong? What is more important here? His eternal soul or his being right on a political point? What good are you doing him by supporting him in his heresy? You should pray that he finds the true Savior, the true Lord, and therefore the only true salvation. His Mormon beliefs are sending him to hell and, I can assure you, when he is there he is not going to care about his political views. What is more important?

==I was not aware that Dr. Mohler signed the Manhatten Declaration. If he did, as you said, it was a terrible compromise. Also, I did not criticize you for agreeing with Glen Beck. After all, I have said that he is right on several political points. What I am wondering is why is it acceptable for Christians, who claim to believe the Word of God, to support a man who rejects the historical, Biblical Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel? If, as you say, Dr. Mohler signed the Manhatten Declaration I would put the same question to him.

==Do you really have to ask why providing support to a heretic is unBiblical?

"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds" 2Jn 10-11

Glenn Beck is more than a unbeliever, he is an unbeliever who is a member of a highly unBiblical, eternally dangerous, and heretical cult. He needs the urgent prayers and witness of Christians, not support on temporary political issues..

==The issue is his theological error because that is far more important than his political positions. I'm sorry that you, and so many other Christians, cannot see that.

==Mitt Romney is in the same position as Glenn Beck and, yes, I have criticized Christians for supporting Romney. The fact that "many Christians" supported Romney means nothing. Many "Christians" support Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, and Benny Hinn, but that does not make them right.

 

Beck is a fruitcake...mormon or not.

Helping the poor is mentioned over 2000 times in my KJV Bible.

You can guess what I think.

Call me a liberal....I've been called a lot worse.

 

Beck looks nothing like a fruitcake. Giving to the poor is great, but nowhere in the Bible is the command to steal from the rich and give the loot to the poor.

 

Much of what the rich have they stole from the poor to begin with.

 

I would be a liberal as well. The word of God is clear that the church should be helping the poor and needy who are unable to help themselves.

 

I think the NT pattern is that the church should be giving. If people followed Beck's advice our little church would be even 'more little' because we meet the needs of the poor and needy all the time. It is a regular part of our church. We preach the responsibility of the church to meet needs.

Now, if Beck was saying that you should run from a church that says it is the state's responsibility I would agree with him.

 

"and who (apart from repentance) will spend eternity in hell"

So you've seen the book of life and know with certainty who is lost and hellbound? Quite presumptuous I'd say.

 

Fortunately, most of us are smart enough to understand that they're not mutally exclusive.

Look the bottom line is that if you think that agreeing with Beck that tax cuts are good compromises the Gospel, then by all means, don't listen to Glenn Beck.

I see. So then, by your logic, if your wife is being raped and the only person around to help her is a Mormon, what would you suggest? Would you want him to save her? Or would you rather she be raped than be helped by someone who's theology you disagree with?

And a true one, too.

I'm sorry, but if he has good ideas, then he has good ideas, regardless of his religion. I'm not going to smear someone just because I disagree with their religion.

My reply is the same as it was ever since I started this conversation with you: I agree with him on his political views. I do not agree with him on his theology.

Again, fortunately, most of us are smart enough to understand that just because someone is wrong in their religious views does not mean that they must also be wrong in their political views.

Oh, so now you're resorting to falsely accusing me of supporting him in his heresy? Doesn't surprise me. You seem like the Annsni/Menagerie Keeper type.

I do. And you should repent for making false accusations.

Oh, I'm sure you weren't.

Yes, you have done so constantly throughout this thread, including accusing me of supporting his heretical religious beliefs, just because I agree with his political observations.

For the same reason Paul appealed to his Roman citizenship.

I like this little game you keep playing of taking everything I say and rephrasing it to support your moronic and false accusations.

I don't blame you for not quoting those two verses in context. I mean, if you did that, then everybody could see that you're misusing them for your own idiotic agenda.

Like I said, the bottom line is that if you don't like Glenn Beck, then don't listen to him, but most of us aren't idiots and understand that if someone makes a correct political observation, it does not become any less true because he is in error in another area.

Now, as the Bible instructs us not to argue with a fool according to his folly, welcome to my ignore list.

 

And you came to that conclusion...how, exactly?

 

google robber barons

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

 

==No, but I know that those who deny the Biblical Jesus are not saved.

Have evangelicals now watered the Gospel down so much that a heretic can be declared "saved"? If so, and it seems this is happening in some corners, that is very sad and very dangerous.

 

Your communist indoctrination is complete DarthSnow

 

==In the case of people like Glen Beck the two are mutally exclusive. When you hold hands with someone like Beck you are sending the wrong message to him and the wrong message to Mormons and other heretics. We should avoid teaming up with such people so that everyone understands the Gospel triumphs over political unity. We will not unite with those who stand against the Lord Jesus Christ.

==I don't think I said that. I've stated, several times in this thread, that Beck has some good points. My problem is with his rejection of the historical, Biblical Jesus. It does not matter what political points I agree with him on, I cannot and will not team up with him because in doing so I would be supporting a heretic.

==That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on one of these boards. And after 10+ years I have read many really stupid things, so that is saying a lot. We are talking about teaming up with a heretic on political issues. Your statement is, at best, a red herring since it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

==Just go ahead and say it directly. Your primary interest is politics. Would you team up with a Muslim on a political social issue? If not, why a Mormon? Personally I don't see a difference. Both reject the Gospel and both reject the historical, Biblical Jesus.

==So you believe that his personal theology, which will send him to hell, is less important than political issues? I don't believe you do. I think you are compromising with Beck because he is a high profile conservative who says things you, and I, can agree with.

==I did not say he was/is wrong in his political views. What I said was, "Who care if some of his political/social views are good when his understanding of the truth is so horribly wrong?".

==More ad hominem attacks I see. When you hold hands with someone like Beck you give the impression that he is ok when, in fact, he is not. You may disagree with his Mormonism but your disagreement looks secondary to your support of him due to politics. What should we take from this? It is ok to support a heretic in politics as long as you disagree with his heresy? I certainly hope not.

==Contrary to what you seem to think, I do not go around reading signatures on those documents. Nor do I follow everything Mohler does or says. So no, I did not know he had signed that document. And, as I said, I would say the same thing to him as I am saying to you. You should not put correct theology and the Gospel in second place to politics for any reason whatsoever. I believe I made my views about the M.D. clear on Baptistboard.

==I'm not sure what that has to do with this topic. I have not said that Christians should not use the law to defend themselves (etc).

==How am I misusing them? John is talking about greeting heretics. How is providing support to a Mormon different than a gnostic? What is the difference? Both are heretics.

Go ahead and ignore my points and me if you wish. However there was a time when Christians would never have provided any type of support for someone who denied the Gospel and the Biblical Jesus. What has changed is that our standards have been lowered. The down-grade is in full effect.

 

LOL, that was funny!

 

Don't care. If you don't like him, then don't listen to him.

 

I'm not saying that Beck is heaven bound, but I'm also not going to say he's hell bound as if I am the authority on the subject. I haven't seen the book of life, and neither have you. Christians are too busy declaring people saved or hell bound.