Global warming, the ultimate moral-values issue?

Was going to type a rant, but think I'll just go for "Whatever Daveo.... " instead

 

Just the typical environmentalist worshipping the creation instead of the creator...

They worship the goddess called Mother Nature... instead of God.

 

I am on the fence on this one. I have no reason at all to be interested in bashing the resources that God gave us.

On the other hand - I continually hear conficting reports about the global warming problem. I DO know from Rev 16 that in the end the sun scorches the earth - and that is "a bad thing".

Frankly - I would love to find a "report that ends the debate" from a stricktly scientific POV.

But every time you drill down into the details of one of those wild claims -- something comes up smelling fishy -- like the report was vastly overblown for some reason.

Having said that - I am totally opposed to wrecking the earth. I just want to know what is really causing the problem -- cyclic changes that occur anyway -- or refrigerators and hair spray.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Another quote from the link

Significantly - no link to "human caused climat changes" and

-ecological damage (no matter what the cause),
-deteriorating relations with neighboring countries and trading partners,
-inadequate societal response to these growing challenges

Are all sufficient in and of themselves to cause collapse.

So here is another issue - whether climat change is human caused or not - are there any facts saying that the climate is about to go to point-X???

For example if global warming is occuring AND even if humans have no ability to stop it -- what is about to happen? Is there any evidence anywhere that human activity has EVER improved weather??


in Christ,

Bob

 

Come on folks, when are you going to take notice of what is going on around you and stop listening to the chicken little crowd? The earth has been steadily warming sense the last ice age. It is natural and there is nothing that man is going to be able to do about it. Besides ask Ed Edwards and those that are in Oklahoma and Illinois if Global Warming would be a bad thing.

Global warming at the hands of man is by design a lie to get the western world (America) to reach into their pockets and provide the UN with a steady tax base. If we give in, mark my word, there will be an income tax taken from every hard working citizen of the western world to be put into the coffers of the United Nations.

I implore every one that has a mind to think, think, think.

 

Creation Care is a magazine produced by the Evangelical Environmental Network and they have a good page on what the Bible has to say about "Creation Care" with many biblical references.

 

The recent situation in Oklahoma & Illinois was predicted
by me DUE TO GLOBAL WARMING.
Because of Global Warming the La Nina condition has
set up in the Pacific. Under those conditions Oklahoma
for sure (and Illinois frequently) will have a winter marked
by warmer/wetter temperatures -- exactly a formula
for ICE [ one just doesn't get as much ice at 10ºF
(past) as one gets at 32ºF (present) -- Ed notes
32ºF > 10ºF ]
The reason we are in an endless war in the middle east
is also a cause of Global Warming -- American uncontrolled
lust for OIL .
There seem to be be two solutions to Global Warming
only one of which makes sense -- why do Christians
fight against the pricks?

1. Have a nuclear war & a Nuclear Winter (where the land
lies fallow for 3 to 7 years) that reverses Global Warming
for a generation.
2. Or end the USofA's inane isolationist policy that
keeps getting us into SERIOUS WARS (our military deaths in
the millions) instead leading the rest of the world into a
sane energy policy. Think what a positive witness that
would be to the atheists in Commie countries & to Muslims!
i
Of course, the fact that the USofA Energy Policy is made
by people who wear coats in a Potomac summer
makes me wonder if we can solve the waste of
Oil which does have a limit and the burning of which
does cause Global Warming.

Can anybody spell LEMMINGS RUNNING OFF A CLIFF?

 

I do not have an opinion as to whether global warming is caused by human activity or not.

But if it is, then it is indeed vitally important that we exercize good stewardship over creation. I believe that the scriptures teach both of the following:

1. The eternal home of the redeemed is not "heaven" but rather a re-made and transformed cosmos (e.g. earth, sun, stars, etc.). We will have bodies in eternity.

2. Even though the renewed cosmos will in fact be renewed, it will bear an imprint of some of the characteristics of the present world.

In defence of point 2, I offer:

A. the pierced hands of Jesus as evidence that the renewed creation bears marks of the old.

B. The "child birth metaphor of Romans 8 (which also supports item 1). The baby will "inherit" some of the characteristics of the mother.

C. The "seed" metaphor of 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul is describing the bodies that we will have in this renewed creation:

The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body

As with the childbirth metaphor, that which springs forth from a seed bears to some degree the imprint of the world from which it was sown.

D. I also offer this from again from 1 Corinthians 15 which comes at the end of a well-known description of the renewed creation:

Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain

Paul is saying that we do now will have impact on the world to come. God will not entirely the present cosmos, he will transform and re-create it. And some of what we do now will survive.

All of this is to say: If we do not take care of God's world now, our eternal future may be less glorious than it might otherwise be.

 

Clearly the "ice age" suddenly froze some very tropical plants and animals - who lived at what in a frozen wasteland.

And granted there have been "cycles" including a "mini-ice age" that involved warming and cooling cycles.

That is all a "given".

But just like we don't want to turn our neighborhoods into a disease infested garbage dump - so we want to have some degree of stewardship with the planet in general.

I just don't know for a fact that we are affecting the weather on our own OR That we can "turn the weather around" via human impact on weather.

Looking for science facts more than science "Feelings" on this one.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Sometimes, you are sharp to the point ! But we don't deny the importance of the preservation and the best use of the Nature.

 

I don't believe we are truly capable to fix anything which is external until we fix that which is internal.

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all will be given unto you. :jesus:

 

Climate change is a problem that technology can find a solution for but nothing will be done unless our owners can be convinced that the solution will make our owners richer and will only inconvenience the poor people.

 

What science proof do we have that man can revearse weather trends?

 

There are a few good quotes from this article that I would like to highlight.

 

My argument is not that we should not be responsible stewards toward the resources of this planet that God has given. I am firmly in favor of that.

God says after all "I will DESTROY those who DESTROY the earth".

in Christ,

Bob

 

From the site cited in the OP:

// We need leaders who will avoid the mistakes made by those long-dead civilizations, which, in Diamond’s summary, failed to anticipate problems before they arrived, failed to perceive problems even after they had arrived, failed even to try to solve problems once they were perceived, and if they finally tried to solve the problems failed to find the right solutions in time. //

The Golden Age of Science Fiction Books (1949-1955)
predicted pollution causing disintegration of society. They write books
not lead nations.

//What science proof do we have that man can revearse weather trends?//

Strangely, there is plenty. Don't people read history books
anymore? Men have always believed that they could influence
the Earth. Pagans threw people into volcanoes (usually people they
didn't like, Pagans are wrong religiously, they ain't stupid) to
appease the ground gods. Pagans hung people on crosses
before the sky god -- in order to appease her. (Later when they
were more political and less 'spiritual' they just admitted they
were getting rid of the extra people they didn't like.)

We can be 99% sure that burning of huge amounts of
fossil fuel causes enough Carbon Dioxide to increase the
overall heat of the earth. By the time the oceans are 90%
boiled off - then we can be 99.999% sure -- way to late

There is a 7900 square mile dead zone in the gulf
of Mexico at the mouths of the Mississippi likely
caused by corn fertilization in & around Iowa.
The Siberian Permafrost is melting at a tremendous
rate - we burn fossil fuels at a tremendous rate --
Sorry, but that is proof to me that one causes the
other.

 

The UN says We will tax those who destroy the earth. All of you who will fall into this ruse that is be brought down onto all free peoples you just as well print a sign that says TAX ME INTO A COOLER EARTH. Then proceed to dismantle all that you consider free.
Revelation 11:16-18
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

To take that verse as a statement for environmental stewardship is to take it out of context. It is in reference to angry nations and of judgment on behalf of the servants, prophets and saints. It is they who will inherit the earth.
How soon do we forget that God Himself has destroyed the earth and will do it again.

Genesis 6:6&7
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Isaiah 66:15&16
15For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
2 Peter 3:10-12
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Besides, who are we going to stand with in this issue, the Gaia, mother earth neo-paganism that believes that global warming will result in world wide flooding or God's own promises?

Genesis 9:12-17
12And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Please, again I implore you to think.

 

I believe that the New Testament writers expressed the view that the earth will be transformed, not that it will be destroyed in the sense of utterly wiped out and replaced with something entirely new. And, more to the present issue, because this renewed earth will indeed bear some of the imprints of the present earth, we indeed should be concerned with environmental stewardship.

In Romans 8, Paul writes "that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.". This does not sound like utter destruction to me. Paul then goes on to deploy a childbirth metaphor, suggesting that the new earth (which will be our eternal home) will indeed have some of the properties as the present earth in the same way a baby has some of the same properties as the mother.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Pauls uses the "seed which then gives birth to something new" metaphor to describe the relation between our present bodies and the bodies that we will have after the resurrection. Again, this particular metaphor suggests a transition from the present world to the next that will not be entirely discontinuous - some things will "carry over" into the future world.

Not to mention the entire sweeping story of redemption that starts with the fall and pervades all Scripture - God is not going to destroy his creation - which He declares is very good - He is going to redeem it. Translate this theme into the "environmentalism" key and I think we need to take care of this planet since it will not be destroyed, but rather transformed.

As for texts like this from 2 Peter 3:

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a]
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

I suggest these texts need to be interpreted in light of material earlier in 2 Peter 3:

But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men

Was the earth really destroyed in the Noahic flood? Of course not. In verse 7, the writer seems to clearly suggest a similarity between the kind of "destruction" occasioned by the flood and the "destruction" that is to come. Let the reader draw the conclusion.

Besides, as hopefully sophisticated readers of Scripture, we should be aware of the tradition of apocalyptic imagery that informed the New Testament world. I suggest that we sometimes take such images too literally and fail to account for what such expressions meant to the people in those times.

 

A little something here for everyone


2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Revelation 11:18
"And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."