Gluttony. Why is it tolerated?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Jun 15, 2011.

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Gluttony...

  1. It is not wrong to over-eat

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. This is a serious problem that should be addressed

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  3. Gluttony is a thing of the past, it doesn't matter any longer, we're under grace

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Drinking a beer (alcoholic bev.) is wrong, but not over-eating

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Both drinking a beer (alcoholic bev.) and over-eating are wrong

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  6. It should be considered an addiction like any other

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  7. Persons that are gluttonous are not controlling their lives by God's Spirit thoroughly

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  8. Being a glutton is lack of self-control and dishonorable to God

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  9. We should hear more about this in churches and preachers shouldn't fear stepping on ones toes

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  10. Drinking a beer (alcoholic bev.) now and then is OK, over-eating as a lifestyle is wrong

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    It doesn't seem we touch on this at all. Gluttony, or over-eating, gorging oneself, is seemingly tolerated within not only our society, but in our churches also.

    At one point, our church members would take us out to dinner after services. Around here there are many buffets, and the status quo is quantity, not quality. Let's just say that those who took us out to eat became a little upset that we did not gorge ourselves with several plates of foods, but ate sensibly, and controlled what we put on our plate, and in our bodies. We were told that what we ate was wrong (because it wasn't enough) and told to eat more.

    This is not meant as an attack. If you take it that way, I apologize. I also want you to know that about 15 years ago, being somewhat overweight, I changed my lifestyle, and habits, with Gods help, watched what I ate, got rid of soda, began serious weight-training (one part of this due to the fact diabetes runs in the family, and this is a strong deterrent). So I've been on both sides of this.

    But why are so very many people in our churches gluttonous? Why is nothing said? Paul rebuked the cretans for this. It is a sinful state. It is tolerated while having a beer will bring great rebuke and one who does so is looked at as some great sinner, and the one gorging themselves as a lifestyle is tolerated.

    This ought not be.

    Many in church look forward to the buffet line afterwards around here. Then again Sunday night. It is a lifestyle, a sinful one, that is costing people their health.

    Why do we sit silent for the most part?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Did you ever look at the people frequenting those all you can eat buffet lines.....for the most part they live to eat.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

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    Gluttony is Americans favorite and most acceptable sin. There really is no excuse for over eating. I have been amazed how many people I have known through the years have become obese. And now even kids and teenagers are becoming obese. Type II diabetes as well as other health problems related to obesity is becoming pandemic in children and teenagers, IMHO.

    I ran across a photo of my mother's graduation class, 1926. There was not one kid that could have been called plump much less obese. All were trim.

    We can rail against homosexuality, but not gluttony. Gluttony leads to all kinds of health problems and early deaths. The current generation of children will very likely be the first generation in our history to die younger than their parents. It is a sad state of affairs.

    Eat to live, do not live to eat!

     
  4. preacher4truth

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    Yep. Eat to live. Not live to eat.

    Here's an interesting link: http://www.internetdynamics.com/home/spadkins/god/virtue/gluttony.html

    I have family, church members, friends, all of them have "persecuted" for watching what we eat. One thing that has happened for the good is I no longer crave bad foods (chips, McDonalds, fries, sweets) I totally reject eating anything with "enriched white flour" in it, avoid sodas altogether.

    A fellow college student, when I first attended Bible College, during prayer, collapsed. He was way over-weight. He died a few months later leaving his wife and 5 kids behind. Heart-breaking.
     
    #4 preacher4truth, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2011
  5. Crabtownboy

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    Often my wife and I will order one meal, an extra plate and share it ... or order a meal each, eat half and take home the other half.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    Cool. We do sometimes also.

    One reason that preachers will rail against homosexuality, and not gluttony, is because they too are obese and gluttonous. :smilewinkgrin:

    There are many preachers in such a case.

    I actually had one IFB preacher rebuke me in a preachers fellowship meeting for being fit, and in shape, saying "at least he doesn't have to worry about falling into sin, because he is not in shape like me." Whatever he meant by that is up to our own interpretation. He said it with great disdain toward me, as if I should be ashamed. But this is typical among IFB preachers.

    I was simply amazed. Looking around the room, at LEAST 80% of them were well over-weight.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Ok here is a question....would you support/ vote for / elect a fat guy as your Political elected official? (IE, Mayor, Governor, Congressman, Senior, President etc) :smilewinkgrin:
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    Over eating doesn't automatically equal gluttony. People with weight problems are not necessarily gluttonous people. Obesity isn't always a sign of gluttony. A simple study of the historical use of the word reveals a different inflection than some might realize.

    Maybe we should focus more on the over use of things that we don't need than necessarily the size of someone's belt. Listen, I'm all for weight control, healthy living, going to the gym, and eating right. These are personal disciplines I maintain myself. But I do know many people, good Christian people who struggle with weight and it isn't tied to gluttony.

    Sadly in America right now obesity is more a sign of poverty, or lower class sociology-economically, than a sin problem. A lot of people don't have access to refined foods or have ever been educated about healthy living and proper eating. A sign of well to do people in the US is often a thinner, healthier lifestyle. Yet I would say many of the richer among us are more guilty of "gluttony" than others.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Sometimes we have no choice. :laugh:

    Seriously, it would depend. If the obese person was obviously the best choice, the best able to fill the office then I would vote for them. I see the obesity as a flaw of character, but not necessarily as a flaw in ability.

     
  10. revmwc

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    Several folks have a thyroid imbalance and the medication can cause them to be really obese, not over eating. I struggle with weight problems, I walk everyday that I can, climb stairs at least twice a day. To maintain the height weight chart listings for me I would need to eat about 600 to 900 calories a day. I can cut my carbs to about 5 a day and will lose weight but I can't stay on really low carbs forever. When I increase past about 20 carbs a day I gain weight. Right now I have gained but have leveled off and my weight is staying constant. I am however still righ at 100 pounds over my weight chart listing. Haven't been able to get it off and keep it off no matter what I do. May be my Metabolism, my sister is obese, my Grandmothers were obese and they were active, my mom lost but has gained back and dad had trouble with his weigth. Contiually dieting. My wife went on low carbs lost what she needed and has maintained since she is doing great I have trouble.

    So you see me and see how heavy I am and judge me a glutton it won't bother me, but does it sound like I am a glutton? Or do mean you mean the occasional eating at the pot lucks at church? Buffets are for one big meal occasionally and then snack or don't even eat the rest of the day.
    So if the buffet on sunday is the only meal you eat in the day is it gluttony to eat all you want?

    The hebrew word in Proverbs 23:20 for glutton

    Strong's Number: 02151 llz
    Original Word Word Origin
    llz a primitive root [compare (02107)]
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Zalal zaw-lal'
    Parts of Speech TWOT
    Verb 553
    Definition
    to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant, be light
    (Qal)
    to be worthless, be insignificant
    to make light of, squander, be lavish with
    to shake, tremble, quake
    (Niphal) to shake, quake

    Translated Words
    KJV (8) - flow down, 2; glutton, 2; riotous, 1; riotous eaters, 1; vile, 2;
    NAS (9) - despise, 1; despised, 1; glutton, 2; gluttonous eaters, 1; gluttons, 1; quake, 1; quaked, 1; worthless, 1;


    Mattjew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
    19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
    20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

    Seems they judged Christ as gluttonous and a wine bibber, guess you guys would have judged him so too.

    From the greek for gluttonous

    Strong's Number: 5314 fa/gov
    Original Word Word Origin
    fa/gov from (5315)
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Phagos fag'-os
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Noun Masculine None
    Definition
    a voracious man, a glutton

    Translated Words
    KJV (2) - gluttonous, 2;
    NAS (2) - gluttonous, 2;


    Websters: glut·ton noun \ˈglə-tən\
    Definition of GLUTTON
    1a : one given habitually to greedy and voracious eating and drinking
    b : one that has a great capacity for accepting or enduring something <a glutton for punishment>

    obese - having excessive body fat

    So judge them gluttons but keep in mind Christ was judged one too for all the eating he did, if you find Him a glutton and gluttony a sin then you find that He was not the perfect lamb of God. So judge as biblically shown not as man does.
     
  11. preacher4truth

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    Of course there will be gray areas. When I use the term "gluttony" here, in the context of the OP, it means those who gorge themsleves as a lifestyle, not thyroidal problems & c.

    When you say you eat 5 grams of carbs a day, what type of carbs are you talking?

    Raw veggies such as green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, &c, or more starchy carbs such as potatoes, rice, breads, corn, grains?
     
  12. revmwc

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    green beans, spinich, turnip greens, no legums at all, broccoli most canned. That is when I start induction. I cut all caffiene drink strictly water and the weight drops quickly sometimes 5 pounds a week. My problem I have never been able to find my perfect carb level. I either lose about 50 pounds and stop loosing at all, or I gain as I increase.
    Low carbs work good for me to lose to a certain point then it stops, and I increase carbs just to get them back in my body and immediately start to gain.
    I have never been really thin and only once was I at my weight listed on the height weight chart and that was after an ilness. Throught out my jr and sr years in High school I was 30 to 40 pounds over but fit playing football and running track, yes I was a sprinter in high school ran a 24.6 220 at 200+ pounds. At 5- 10 I am supposed to weigh 185 but I have never been able to get there and stay there.
     
  13. preacher4truth

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    How many starchy carbs do you eat per day?

    I know it can be very frustrating bro.

    If you don't mind, what age range are you in? I'm 46 btw.

    And, have you tried weight-training, and low intensity cardio, coupled together?

    Also, I don't bother with the "how much I should weigh chart" bunk, mostly because I lift and have a large % of lean body mass for guys my age.
     
  14. revmwc

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    No starchy ones at all when I am on the diet and maybe starchy ones two times a week when not on the low carbs.
    Doctor told me to walk only high BP and a fatty liver. No weight training recently and can't take any over the counter meds or herbal tablets. Doctor has me on strict orders nothing medicine wise or herbal remedies without her permission. I am mid 50's so it get's harder and harder to lose. I work away from home right now 9 hours from home and am by muyself most of that time so have noone to really push me either. No gyms in this little town so no place to really excercise. If I were stationary it would be one thing but I have been working out of town for 10 years off and on.
     
  15. preacher4truth

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    I see. And yes, it does get harder as we get older.

    When you do have starchy carbs, is it in the form of white breads? White taters? We've replaced all of that with whole wheat, or whole-grain breads (not multi, because it still has a high GI) and we also do sweet potatoes instead of white, due the the same GI issue, and brown rice v. white.

    When our GI is spiked, it automatically cause our bodies to store fat. It could be that you're insulin sensitive.

    Sometimes I come out of the gym (my own) and wonder why I torture myself. But I suppose it's worth it. I still even maintain leg day once per week, on a squat rack. It's killer, but it burns fat and increases testosterone levels.

    Walking is also very good.
     
  16. revmwc

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    Breakfast right now two pop tarts due to not having a microwave to cook my scrabbled eggs in, I can boil them the night before I suppose. Tuna salad (tuna and mayo) or Chicken salad (chicken chunks and mayo) for lunch and sirloin patty (thick hamburger), pork chops or a steak and sometimes sausage broiled for dinner with a vegtable. Walking maybe a mile a day. In the 100+ heat. Snacks are usually pork rinds and cheese dip both low carb and low starch in those. Or thin sliced lunch meat cheese and mayo. Still not loosing but not gaining right now either. Boring meals huh? Sundays I eat one meal and maybe a snack. Saturday is ussually just snacking the snacks mentioned.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Oh man, just stop those pop tarts, buy some old fashioned oatmeal (not instant) & make that. Cold cereal....try "Uncle Sams" Flakes (0 sugar) & it has flax seeds with Omega 3 in it (drops the cholesterol down). You can also purchase ready made salads for lunches & dinners (forget the iceburg & get packets with spinach & radicchio .... In fact I go to Walmart & get the big Organic 5 oz containers of the stuff & thats how I eat. & while your there get the strawberry's & blueberries & the Fuji apples & bananas (there are your snacks). Blueberries BTW are great antioxidants. They also in the grocery isle have party bags of Broccoli, Carrot Sticks & Cauliflower. Boy, you going to be regular eating like a rabbit ... :smilewinkgrin:

    My wife at certain times needs her chocolate sweets so I buy her Lindt Dark Chocolate bars (With a touch of Sea Salt). Note that milk chocolate is very bad for everyone but Dark Chocolate has much less sugar & other crap in it. In fact, dark chocolate is a great antioxidant taken in small quantities & the sea salt takes allot of the bitterness away.

    Lastly stay away from allot of bread esp white bread. " The whiter the bread, the quicker you be dead" .... that one's hard for me being raised in an Italian home where you had lots of bread & pasta for almost every meal. Look at the Sopranos ....big bellies & arses....thats how you look after 30 years of eating like that....then your wardrobe starts becoming sweat pants...:laugh:
     
    #17 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2011
  18. revmwc

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    The stores here have no premade salads or such. The Walmart has very little groceries. They are building a super walmart here but not sure how super it will be. This town has two grocery stores both with the same name except they are #1 and #2. The cerel sill like the pot tarts have way too many carbs and the milk definitely way too many carbs. I eat breakfast on the go, 28 mile drive from the town I am staying in and nothing near it but this town. The only thing you can get out here is a traveling tomain wagon that sells food off of it.
    Up at 5:40 fix lunch out the door at work at 6:30 A.m. start at 7:00 A.m. sit almost all day except when I get out for my walk. I cut bread, pasta and all when I go on induction for low carbs, guess I'll nned to start eating two boiled eggs for breakfast and watch the vegetables I eat.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    Here's a great breakfast for you bro. I do this daily, and as a pre-workout "meal."

    Get yourself a nice tub of Whey Protein Powder. The have it at Walmart even, BUT, it is cheaper if you get 5 pounders of it. Check online. (Expect to pay about 7 per pound.) Then get you some nice old fashioned oats. And perhaps, some all ntural peanut butter with nothing but salt added. Or one with very little other ingredients.

    Take the oats and fill the blender with them. Fill it, or it will not grind properly. Now blend that down to flour. (If you can find oat flour, then try that.) You'll need a storage container to keep it in.

    Take a couple scoops of that whey protein, a scoop of oat flour, and 1-2 TBSP of peanut butter, and put it all in a shaker cup (pick it up at walmart too) and add about 12 ozs. water, and shake it up. It's actually very good. The oats are slow digesting, keep you full longer, and way better for you than pop tarts!
     
  20. Salty

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    That is true, but IMHO, way too many people use that as an excuse. In addition, I think P4T was actually trying to make a distinction between gluttony and valid medical conditions.

    and I am one of them - my struggle - I eat too much junk food and do not exercise enough.
    Now, I do have a disability that makes it harder (but not impossible) to exercise.

    Disagree - often many of the poor will eat the cheap food at Micky D or the B-King.
    Crabby made a great statement: (post #3)
    I ran across a photo of my mother's graduation class, 1926. There was not one kid that could have been called plump much less obese. All were trim. I wonder why?
    A lot of kids - poor or otherwise are not getting enough exercise.

    We preach that the Lord can deliver us from the sin of alcohol. Don't we believe he can do the same for gluttony. Especially for those of us who have surrendered at the Battle of the Bulge.:tear:



    BMI Categories: (For link - click here)
    • Underweight = <18.5
    • Normal weight = 18.5–24.9
    • Overweight = 25–29.9
    • Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater
    This Sunday AM, my BMI was 43.0
    This morning (Wed) it is now 42.4

    Sunday at church, I made a public decision that I was going to loose weight.
    goals:

    Immediate. 20 pounds
    Short term..15 pounds.....total 35
    Mid term.....15 pounds.....total 50
    Long term...15 pounds.....total 65
    Ultimiate.....10 ponds......total 75

    In addition, I want to be able to comfortable wear my US Army uniform. (I bought it in 1994)

    Please keep me in prayer.
    P4T, thank you very much for this thread! :thumbsup:
     

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