Gluttony

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 12, 2011.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I am doing a study on this subject. I heard a sermon in 2008 that set the fire for me and as of late last July I myself have lost over 50 pounds. I have become a health/nutrition guru and have taken the verse in Corinthians that speaks of the body being a temple of the Holy Spirit seriously. I do not do this to earn my salvation, or my sanctification, but more so to take care of the body that God has given me. Sadly doing some research I found next to nothing out there in the christian world on this subject, and find many christians to be in sin in this area. I am looking for ideas as I brainstorm this subject.

    Some points to think about

    Why are so many christians in sin in this area?
    Why is this topic almost never preached in churches?
    What can we as Christians do to improve in this area?
    1 Cor 6:19 says that our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit (NIV). Is this referring to sexual sin only? Or would it encompass gluttony? Why or why not?

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. annsni

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    John - I would highly recommend my friend's book Get Healthy for Heaven's Sake. I'm sure it covers some of what you're looking for.

    http://www.lisamorrone.com/index.php/books-products/GetHealthy/

    Lisa is an old friend of mine. I've known her since she was in junior high and her husband and my husband have been business partners and employer/employee (each taking turns for the positions - LOL) for over 30 years. She's now a physical therapist, professor and author/speaker and her books have been great. This one is brand new and well worth getting.
     
  3. evangelist6589

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    Thank you my friend. I am looking for intel to aide me in my study and article on the subject of gluttony. But I wonder if you have any biblical support or articles to assist me? Thanks.. Besides one sermon I heard in 2008 I have next to nothing.
     
  4. evangelist6589

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    Actually looking at the book on amazon it makes some good arguments from the Bible and medical research. This would be a great book.
     
  5. annsni

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    Lisa is really sound theologically AND medically. She's also the physical therapist who has helped my husband walk after a particularly devastating injury to his foot. :) I really think she has some of what you're looking for.
     
  6. Iconoclast

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  7. evangelist6589

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  8. Tom Butler

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    Let's remember that a hardy fellowship meal is always in order.

    Paul approved of it in I Cor 1:27: ".. but I buffet my body..."
     
  9. Allan

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    Couple of things. While I am not against being healthy, you will NEVER find scripture defining, nor advocating such a 'type' of lifestyle as if it was a biblical mandate.

    Take for instance the passage of scripture you use regarding the body as a temple.. that passage has been so grossly taken out of context and stripped from it's intended purpose and meaning to play the cash 'cow' (reference to gold calf here) for many. That passage is speaking of fornication NOT health. You can not even garner a spiritual principle relating to health from that verse. This is part of the reason you will find very little on the subject from the pulpits or theological studies.. it is a new FAD and not something ever presumed, taught or assumed through out the history of the church, most specifically relating to and of the bibles precepts and teachings.

    PLEASE do NOT get me wrong here. I applaud the fact you have taken an interest in your health and have even lost a good deal of weight. Amen! However do not place something into scripture that is not FOUND in scripture. We are to be good stewards of the things God has given us, and scripture states that as believers our mandate is - all things in moderation.

    You asked 'why not'? Because the context dictates what it is being spoken to, and any principles we glean from it are to be based from that aspect.
    Additionally, there is nothing in scripture, regarding how God desires us to be thin, nor does it give mandates on what it 'healthy' and not - nor to 'be' healthy. Thus to exact from scripture (as some claim) that it speaks regarding being healthy is from 'adding' to scripture, not taken 'from' scripture. However, by the same token, neither is scripture against being healthy and fit. The problem is that these (healthy and fit) are and have debatable standards even among science and medical physicians.

    Can you imagine if we were Jews and you were a Priest of the Temple?
    The majority of your food would consist of 'fried' foods. Much of their food was from the altar of the Lord in which parts of the animal was placed in 'vat' of sorts, along with the fat of the animal. That fat would boil down and become quite literally a big bowl of hot grease cooking the meat (and everything else) placed therein. You and your family would be eating this on a DAILY basis. You can bet they enjoyed baked foods now and again :laugh: How was this healthy for priests who were the preachers and teachers of the Word of God? Yet it was the command of God that this be their portion. Imagine the health gurus today teaching to eat daily (once a day, EVERY day) fried foods :laugh:

    Lastly and possibly most important.. Gluttony is NOT the sin of overeating.
    Research just what gluttony is according to scripture. While eating is often used in conjunction with i, it is important to understand what the word entails and thus when it is used in conjunction with eating you have a clearer picture of what it is meaning.

    It is for THIS reason you will not find it often preached about because it is not a common sin. Much like you never hear of Jesus preaching against Homos*xuality. Was that not a sin, and if so, why does He not address like so many other sins? because it was not an issue needing to be dealt with at the time.
     
    #9 Allan, May 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2011
  10. Salty

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  11. Benjamin

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    Please don't get me wrong here but:

    Yet, the preceding context of 1Cor 6:19 does not negate the fact that the body is the temple of God nor limit the meaning from common sense health practices to take care of that temple. As a matter of fact there are other instances where the temple is spoken of apart from fornication.

    1Co 3:16-17
    (16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?(17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    2Co 6:16
    (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    It is also a new FAD that 2/3 of the people in this country are overweight or obese and this is causing grave heath issues and it is certainly proper to translate as defiling to the temple to include to waste, shrivel, whither, spoil, ruin, corrupt or destroy the temple. (Strongs) Like you argued this could be: “because it was not an issue needing to be dealt with at the time.”

    First only fornication is attributed to the temple, then gluttony is said NOT to refer to overeating. All I got to say about this is TSK TSK and that concept not referring to overeating is certainly debatable.
    More likely the reason this subject is not preached on is that this society has been taught that THIS SUBJECT IS TABOO!
     
    #11 Benjamin, May 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2011
  12. Benjamin

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    I love talking about promoting healthy lifestyle changes, it is part of the job I have chosen as a mid-life career change. I just finished my 3rd year of going to college in order to work in the field of physical therapy and am starting clinicals this Monday. Drop by the health forum and share your thoughts. :thumbsup:
     
  13. Benjamin

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    P.S. Allan, He didn't say how big of a portion they were to eat. :laugh:
     
  14. evangelist6589

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    You guys got some good intel. I hope to writ a good article as I see so little on this subject on the web from Christians.

    Career change? Know thats something I need to do as well.
     
  15. Allan

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    Actually it does at that. The context is the definer of passage and health is the aspect to which the object is speaking.

    I never said 'every' instance regarded 'only' fornication but the fact still remains not either one of the above passages are speaking to the health and well being of the body. Truthfully, it can't even be said to be implied. The above are speaking specifically and intentionally regarding their spiritual state of being -and defilement in BOTH places have nothing to do (neither specifically nor implied) with the physical body whatsoever.

    I'm sure you remember Jesus statin (regarding food), it is not what goes into the man that defiles him but what comes out.. and a bit later He states that eating with 'unwashed hands' (yuk!) does not defile a man.
    Thus the we KNOW the defiling being spoken of by Paul, in relation to the body has NOTHING to do with being healthy or slim.

    As noted above, your statement is based off of an unbiblical postulation.
    No where in scripture does it speak to or mandate people, much less believers, to be 'healthy' or 'slim'. This does not mean it might not be better, but my point is that 'scripture' makes no such mandate or allusions to such.

    Again, please show were I stated, implied, or alluded to 'only' fornication is attributed to the temple.

    Again, please show where I said "gluttony is said not to REFER to overeating".
    I said gluttony is not THE SIN OF overeating.
    I acknowledged that glutton can REFER to eating but not overeating in general.. IOW - not 'overeating' as in past full (which of course is not defined by scripture either).

    It is of note that in the NT the only time the term is used is by the pharisees to refer to Jesus. The word translated "gluttony" in the Old Testament, in some translations, is condemned. But this word (Zalal) does not mean "eating too much at dinner; or overeating in general" It means worthless, vile, or insignificant.

    In studying the languages of the Scripture a good study tool that address the words according to their historical usages is important (and I know you agree) and with that the BDAG is superior to Strongs and Thayers like flashlight is to a candle. Here is BDAG on the term in question regarding it's Hebrew usage.
     
  16. Allan

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    Actually... That was funny :laugh:

    (but in truth He did)
     
  17. Benjamin

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    No, but you try to make the separation of "defiling" from the physical body and unrelate the many clear complexities of what the temple consists of to avoid any relationship between the two by a method of requiring specificity to be implied from within one one verse and seem to not want to make comparisons when it is not convenient to your course.

    Although I would agree that the physical things we put in our body will not hurt the soul this can not be practically taken as a license to abuse the physical body in any sense of the word. Of course, we are not under any law to wash our hands to be saved, but it seems you strive to take that to an extreme separation of the person's (body/spirit/soul) in order to interpret the meaning of “defile” to not relate to the physical…it doesn’t mean you will not get harmful germs living that way Allan. :tongue3:
    I think you are going to far to prove defiling has "NOTHING" to do with the physical.

    In a sense of fornication does the temple relate to the physical body or just spiritual?

    Is the temple we not to defile separated spiritual from physical; are we separated that way?

    If the temple is a bodily group is the fornication spoken of referring to an orgy, or can it be looked at as individual?

    And what does defiling mean and relate to if you don't stretch to make such separations?

    That said, frankly, the body/temple would not be my first line of argument to support taking care of the physical body. There are too many generalities to cover, but having “nothing” to do with being healthy physically would have to make a separation of oneself (body/spirit/soul) that I would not specifically set out to do. (Read my response to "unbibical posturing below).


    When I interpret I use the biblical method of comparing scriptures as per Isaiah 38:9-13 and I look at 2 Tim 2:15, “rightly dividing” to mean making a straight clean cut into the Word and examining it as a whole and not as a dissection where this can only mean that and that can only mean this. This is not “unbiblical postulating” you should probably save that argument for your dispensational hermeneutics proof-texting exercises. :smilewinkgrin:

    Gluttony is clearly seen to relate to over-indulgence whether it is referring to wine or food. A little wine, in my view, is neither harmful nor do I think a good biblical case can be made for total abstinence, but over-indulgence is harmful to the body and the spirit. Food and wine are defined together within a clear meaning relating to over-indulgence and this certainly pertains to wisdom and many other instructions we are given throughout the Bible to maintain “self-control”.

    Can a very heavy man stand up and preach about self-control and not appear as a hypocrite?

    Overeating can be biblically linked to sin in several ways, it is a sin against one’s own physical body; an example of a sin that is against one’s body is “children obeying their parents that they may live longer”. Overeating is a lack of self-control and certainly be defined by scripture that it is sin (missing the mark) in that aspect.

    BTW, if i was going to support an argument about it being a sin to over-eat I would begin with {Self Control Issues}.
     
  18. Benjamin

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    I have been dwelling on this for most my life while seeing those very close me suffer from its affects. I have been gathering information for over 1 ½ years myself for a website I hope to build. I plan to be available for both physical and spiritual counseling to my patients. I encourage you to continue this very challenging endeavor.

    It takes a lot of understanding because this is a sensitive subject and it often causes hurt to other’s feelings. I am also often hurt because of the hard feelings it can leave behind. So first of all let me admit that we all fall short of making all the right decisions in our lives. In our love for God and others/neighbors we/I desire to preach that which is good for both body and soul, yet we all become hypocrites at some point because we don’t always do what we know in our hearts we should, yet we should be still lead to preach that which is right, for love of the truth.

    Obesity is a hard subject to preach about because there is no hiding it and people often will feel that they have been put in a defensive position or fingers are being pointed at them. I am burdened when I see both the spiritual and physical suffering of others due the ill effects of obesity. Because I love other’s I strive to educate them and myself about the ill effects and how to deal with the problem, not to be mean and hurtful as if others don’t already know this, (the apparent and unhealthful qualities), but in the hope I can discover motivating methods to help others make healthy lifestyle changes that decrease the chances of them suffering within this epidemic. I cannot learn to do this or get better at it without practicing discussing it. To those who will quickly take the offensive and tell me to mind my own business I say my business becomes “tough love” if need be buddy, this is a fight about “your” wellbeing, I KNOW my motives, falsely attack them if you will! (not saying this has occurred in this tread)

    The subject is often thought of as “taboo” and if I were to accept that mind set no progress would ever be made and this is a serious heart felt matter to me. Like those struggling with this issue I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, if I ignore it nothing happens, if I address it I open myself up to face accusations made from others who feel they have been attacked in some way. I can take it, and will take it, but I want to strive to make it clear when I address this issue I am not purposely attacking others and my motivations are purely my love for them. However, learning how to make this clear and avoiding the deep felt defensive behaviors of others will continue to be challenging. I have my faults in communication and when I fall short of making my motivation of love clear, as I often will, all I can do is apologize try to do better and say “I love you” often as I continue down this path.
     
  19. michael-acts17:11

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    So many preachers refuse to preach against gluttony because of their own sin. Scripture clearly equates gluttony to drunkenness. The same men who preach fire & brimstone against my having a glass of wine with my dinner have never met a buffet they didn't lust after. And yes, LUST is the proper term. How can a man who enslaved to his own sinful gluttony rightly condemn others? I've heard many preachers claim that others cannot grow in the Spirit or be right with God with unrepentant sin in their lives while they are fulfilling their sinful gluttonous lust before the congregation. You want to know why churches are full of spiritually immature believers? It is because they are being led by spiritually immature men.


    And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
    (Pro 23:2)

    Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
    (Pro 23:20-21)

    Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
    (Php 3:19)
     
  20. Salty

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    Just curious if you would be willing to give us your weight and height?
     

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