GM, Amtrak and an Increasingly Fascist America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bro. Curtis, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    .....After three years, government was supposed to be out of the passenger rail business. 40 years and billions of dollars later, the government is still operating Amtrak at a loss, despite the fact that they have created a monopoly by making it illegal to compete with Amtrak. Imagine what they can now do to what is left of the great American auto industry !.....

    .....Comingling public control of private business is known as fascism. While today's politicians may feel emboldened with all their new power, history will only repeat itself as all this collapses on itself. It is the height of hubris for bureaucrats and politicians to attempt to control the market and the freewill of the American people. In the end, the market always wins out. Maybe one day future generations will wise up and allow free markets to function and thrive without the albatross of government around its neck. For now, it looks like those in charge have not learned the lessons of the past, and have doomed us to repeat those mistakes once again.


    http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=104
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Oh! Don't post facts man! You might get accused of a slippery slope, wanting to deal with context, or having nothing.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    Let's blame Bush.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Or Limbaugh and Hannity
     
  5. rbell

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    One thing's for sure: Fascism has been proven time and time again to be an inherently unstable form of government. It is like an "intermediate form." Should we continue on the road to fascism, it's not if we will crash, but when.
     
  6. OldRegular

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    If Americans would face reality when they looked at "bho" they would see the pompous Mussolini! For those who don't know he was the Italian little caesar, ally of but ignored by Hitler, who came to an ignominious end at the hands of Italian citizens.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    If I remember right, Nixon created American Track...

    I kind of have mixed feelings on this one. The freight industry would fail if the government didn't maintain the tracks etc... for Amtrak. That or it would be a million dollars to ship a raisin across the street. I wonder why more people don't use the train.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    Wonder no more. It is slow, uncomfortable,and just as expensive as flying or driving your own car. You can drive your own car and make it in about the same time. There is no benefit to it unless you are a die hard tree hugger.
     
  9. Freedom

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    What was Ron Paul's plan to end the economic crisis? Use the "invisible hand of the market?"
     
  10. rbell

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    I have traveled extensively by train on two other continents, and have used Amtrak.

    The reason it's not used is it is run with typical government inefficiency, especially compared to Western Europe's system. It's not that great of a bargain. And the employees aren't particularly nice (plenty of exceptions).

    But, as with a government operation, what can you do? Bad apples aren't fired. Once bureaucracies are formed, they aren't eliminated.
     
  11. rbell

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    Better than Obama's "iron hand of the state."

    We won't be fascist for long. It is an "intermediate form" of governance. We will move to a totalitarian state, or we will see the pendulum swing back toward individual liberty and private ownership.

    My prayer is for the latter.
     
  12. blackbird

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    I traveled by train once-------from Baltimore to DC

    Then I traveled by train in the UK

    No comparison--------UK beats the US

    Why do folks here in the US not use trains

    #1 reason-------cheap gasoline---------as long as we're paying $1.85 to $3.50/gallon---------compared to 5 British Pounds/liter

    When gas gets to be $10.00/gallon-----we'll learn how to ride the train--ride our bikes---walk----ride our "Moped" etc
     
  13. OldRegular

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    If we don't drill offshore and in ANWR we will eventually hit $10 per gallon. With 243 million cars and trucks on the road only an idiot would not understand this. "bho" isn't the brightest person on the block [as some claim] but he understands this and it is one of his goals.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    So high speed rail might increase ridership and make the industry self-sustaining....

    I wonder why America hasn't gone that route???
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    No trains are like buses, they have to stop in every one horse town along the way.That is why they are slow. There are no single stop or non-stop train rides.
     
  16. LeBuick

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    I agree with you here, but like other countries who have invested in their railroads, if we do likewise we may can give the industry back to the private sector. It will not survive like it is but if we can improve the basics of it, like high speed rail, we may can sell it back to the private market... You think?
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    Ron Paul had no such plan. He knew the federal intervention is unsustainable, as do all thinking people. Some entities need to fail. Using tax dollars to prop up failing businesses is a bad idea. You should do a little of your own research, because it seems you are back to you old "hit & run" posting. I won't waste much time debating you.
     
  18. Magnetic Poles

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    One big issue with Amtrak is that is shares the rails with freight trains. The freight has priority, so passenger service gets parked on a side rail as freight goes by. I would like to see us build a dedicated, high-speed passenger rail system across the country.
     
  19. windcatcher

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    There are many reasons why passenger rail doesn't work in our own country:

    Availability and affordability: It would have to be more available and accessible to more destination areas: Couple that with public or private transportation cost upon arrival..... as most people don't travel with the intent of remaining at the train station until a return departure.

    In Europe... where one has compact centers of population and public transportation...... where autos and petrol is more of convenience and expense than a necessity...... where congestion can or could be a nightmare for commuting if everyone was dependant on cars...... where one's employment in industry or business is not far removed from public transport.... nor is their housing..... it works fine.

    In the States, some utilization might occur if people found themselves employed in more distant areas but both employment areas, marketing and business areas and population living areas were concentrated with reasonably priced public transport from train stations to destination proximities. I could see this happening in small stretches between places like NYC, Baltimore, Washington-DC..... or areas like Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill and Charlotte....... or areas like Orlando, Tampa, St Pete, Miami, Gainesville..... and possibly Tallahassee and Jacksonville........ and similar population centers across the US. But, even then..... I think it would be highly dependant upon 'support services' such as secured parking for private vehicles, availablity of public transport, and employer assisted car pools.

    When one considers that there are many people who still live in rural areas or smaller urban centers..... and their daily transport needs are variable over 8 different directions with conflicting schedules...... it is difficult for many to manage arrangements to car-pool, and even more of an unlikely possibility that public transportation could be provided cheaply and self sustaining the cost for the population involved.

    This often becomes the arguement for land planning and control: Under various international 'think tanks' including the UN and environmentalists.... ideas are being floated and latched onto by many in local and state officials to plan concentrated housing, business, and industry around hubs of public transportation .....to include train transport.

    The public is already being 'groomed' in this regard... and its already creeping into the public schools. The ideas, themselves, aren't so bad, if it flows with the wishes of the people and their right to choose for themselves...... However, such ideas often become springboards of new laws and controls designed to remove people from the resources of land ownership and use, to curtail and add additional inconvenience or burdens to those who wish or need the freedom of movement and personal transportation, and/or would choose a 'less connected' life. Coercsion, then, may become the norm for all but the 'elite' who have the wealth or the influence to maintain a more independant lifestyle.

    The down side to some of this is that by eliminating or reducing the rural or sprawning urban element...... people are more concentrated into areas of contact..... are more susceptible to out breaks of disease or pandemics, are easier targets for mass terrorism, have fewer options available to them for choosing their own course of self or God-led reliance in the event of mass adversity: How much food can one grow in a window box or on a balcony? When both water resources for drinking and sewers and drain-off basins become concentrated in an area....... what difficulties are created to maintain separation of contaminants and purity..... and how does man cope technologically with the concentration and improve upon those natural systems of filtration which God designed in the sunlight, air, and earth?

    But........ I beg apology be accepted by the OP: I did not mean to go off topic.
     
    #19 windcatcher, Jun 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2009
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    No problem, WC.

    I have heard a few liberals saying rural living should be curtailed, and populations centralized, so's to facilitate mandatory rail travel.
     

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