Gnosticism?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    What is this philosophy in historical context?

    How on earth does it relate to the Version debate as it is hurled invectively upon us?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    *resolution of the pronoun "it"
    is "Gnosticism".

    In the comic book
    SABOTAGE? by Jack Chick (1976) is the
    following quote:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. mioque

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    "What is this philosophy in historical context?"
    ''
    The equivalent of the New Age movement among liberal Jews living around the year 0. Both Gnosticism and early Christianity focussed much missionary activity on the same group, (people with ties to and/or an interest in Judaïsm) causing much infighting and cross contamination.
     
  4. HankD

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    Gnosticism has a wealth of "scripture" Gospel of Thomas, Acts of Peter, etc.

    Also gnostics have been accused of mutilating the canonical Scripture. This is the often time charge against the Alexandrian Texts. Whenever Aleph or B omits a word or has a variant in the area of the deity of Christ compared to the Traditional Text it is suddenly a gnostic deception (rather than perhaps an honest scribal mistake).

    One of my rebuttals is, error is error, whether with intent or without, with or without a theological bent, whether by gnostic scribes or Anglican bishops ("easter" for "passover", the use of the sacrilegious pronoun "it" in reference to the Holy Spirit,"churches" rather than "temples", adding to His words "God forbid", etc...).

    HankD
     
  5. Bob Rogers

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    I`ve wondered about how conservatives will condemn Alexandria and praise the Donatists. :confused: The Donatists were in North Africa. There`s an extent where Isis/Diana crept into the Church as the "Queen of Heaven". The Christian commemeration of the resurrection of Jesus became polluted with the pegan "Lament for Tammuz". (Tammuz = Horos) What I`ve read from the pseudo-pygrapha didn`t appear overly significant. [​IMG]

    Gnosticism became condemned, because the Roman Catholic Church condemned it. At the same time, Eusebius looked to Alexandria for evidances of early Christianity.

    When Titus destroyed Jerusalem, the surviving remnant escaped accross North Africa to Spain. Much of the Gnostic writings may be accually from the Church at Jerusalem.

    Bob
     
  6. michelle

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    Here is a link that explains it pretty well:

    http://www.ageac.org/ingles/fr_ageac2i.htm


    I suggest you pray before entering the link, and ask the Lord for protection and discernment.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. Marcia

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    Gnosticism is very evident by its beliefs that ususally have a spirit/material duality (with the material world and physical body being evil) and the view of Jesus as not having been in a body. That is why 1 Jn 4:2 says this

    because the Gnostics said Jesus did not really have a body. Gnostics were infiltrating the church as Gnostic Christains.

    You can see Gnosticism in the New Age, which says that everyone comes from God, and that matter is denser or has a lower "vibration" than spirit. There are other parallels -- we are in an illusion and need knowledge in order to be liberated.

    Gnosticims is enjoying a revival now due to some scholars like Elaine Pagels who has written _The Fifth Gospel_ about the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas and other books. Her latest book, _Beyond Belief_, is a bestseller. :(

    Also, the big bestseller, _The Da Vinci Code_, by Dan Brown, gives credence to the Gnostic gospels as well. This book is still at no. 4 nationally and still in hardback selling all over the place. In the Wash DC area, the #1 bestselling hardback is _The Da Vinci Code_. This is influencing a lot of people and Christians should be aware of its dangers.

    If you want some good articles showing the flaws of Brown's book, I list some here:
    http://cana.userworld.com/cana_DaVinciCode.html

    Christians need to be informed and know how to debunk stuff like this that attacks the Bible and attacks Christ.
     
  8. Marcia

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    If there was Gnostic influence on the MV's, we would not have 1 Jn 4.2 rendered as it is below

    I still await evidence of Gnostic/New Age influence on the MV's. I have read the NIV and NASB through at least once (the NASB probably 3 times) and saw no signs of such influence, and believe me, I am extremely sensitive to such influences.
     
  9. mioque

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    One of my professors was Gilles Quispel (I took a class in heresiology he gave), who played a part in the discovery of the gospel of Thomas.
    Interestingly enough according to him the gospel of Thomas is the least Gnostic of the texts discovered at Nag Hammadi. It is mostly famous because it is digestable (and because of the completely theoretical possibility it might contain a genuine saying by Jezus not found in any other source).
    The true Gnostic texts found in the same spot (a 4th century convent library hidden away in the Egyptian desert when it's contents were declared heretical) are dreadfully boring.
    Most of them are turgid quasi-philosophical pap supposedly spoken by luminaries from the New Testament. There is actually a text that exists in 2 versions, one spoken by Jezus and exactly the same text spoken by another named character about whom nothing further is known.
     
  10. michelle

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  11. Askjo

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    Thomas M. Strouse wrote about gnosticism and the New Testament Text in his book, "The Lord God Hath spoken."
     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    Actually one need go no further than their dictionary
    to find out a lot about Gnosticism.

    Gnosticism - a system of belief combining
    ideas derived from Greek philosophy, Oriental mysticism,
    and ultimately, Christianity, and stressing
    salvation through gnosis

    gnosis - positive, intuitive knowledge
    in spiritual matters

    The bowels of gnosticism:
    If you knew, then you would know.

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus [​IMG]
     
  13. superdave

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    :D

    I have told you this before Ed, but you are terrible

    And I love it.

    As far as the relationship to the versions issue, Ed hit the nail on the head. The mystical faith that has revealed the AV as the only to certain elect believers has much more gnostic flavor to it than any supposed gnostic influence in the MV's

    If only I gnew, than I would gnow.
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    Well if Chick comic books and Tom Strouse think there is gnostic connection on the MV's, then it must be so. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Appreciate the good comments. The history and belief system of gnosticism makes the vilifying attempt of the Bible-haters (attacking English Bibles, no matter the version, indicates "hate" in my thinking) laughable.

    gnophis is a good word to describe such. No relation at all to gnoosko from which we get gnoostic. Gnophis means "darkness". [​IMG]
     
  15. AVL1984

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    ROFLMHO!!!! Sorry, Dr. Bob, but I couldn't help it! I've read excerpts from Dr. Strouse...Can he really be compared with Chick???? LOL!

    AVL1984 [​IMG]
     
  16. Ben W

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    Gnostiscm is a good description of KJVO'ism

    Gnostiscm is all about further revelation after the Ressurection of Christ, Co-incedently KJVO teaches that God gave us a further revelation in Christianity when in 1611 he brought forth a perfect copy of the Bible.

    The early church did have the perfect word, there was no secondary Gnostic type event where God had to intervene with history after the Cross.
     
  17. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Gnostiscm is a good description of KJVO'ism

    Gnostiscm is all about further revelation after the Ressurection of Christ, Co-incedently KJVO teaches that God gave us a further revelation in Christianity when in 1611 he brought forth a perfect copy of the Bible.

    The early church did have the perfect word, there was no secondary Gnostic type event where God had to intervene with history after the Cross.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Seems clear to me, NONE of you read the links I provided. You all have not a clue what it is. You just continue to slander many of us falsely.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Brother Ben W. -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     
  19. Ed Edwards

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    Why should I?
    Has Gnosticism changed since I first learned
    about it in 1962?

    Unfortunately, many confuse Gnosticism
    with mysticism. Gnosticism is a formal sort
    of mysticism. Both the set: mysticism,
    and the subset: Gnosticism, are Anathema
    to we Baptists.

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus! [​IMG]
     
  20. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Amen, Brother Ben W. -- Preach it!
    --------------------------------------------------

    I see Ed, you encourage others to believe slander and lies and then call it preaching, with a hearty Amen, against those who are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     

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