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Go ahead and pound me: But I believe the Government should be involved in healthcare.

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Havensdad, Dec 12, 2009.

  1. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    I must confess one of the reasons I started this thread, was to better understand the arguments on both sides. I am still not sure what exactly is the best answer: I can certainly understand those who do not want the Government in charge of health care, due to their ineptitude. I have to confess, with this singular point, I have found some agreement.


    Something needs to be done, though. We are wasting far too much money on useless, insane things, when that money could better be used to help the unfortunate. I believe this country has been in the past, at least somewhat of a "Christian" nation, and I would dearly love to see we, as a society, refocus our attention on people, rather than stuff.

    I am done with this thread. Thanks for all who have participated.
     
  2. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    It isn't the government's job to help the unfortunate. The government should take any extra money and apply it to our debts and then, whatever is left over should go right back to the taxpayers.

    And I'd like to see our nation focus on getting back to the Constitution.
     
  3. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    Shoot!.... I reallly don't think you know what you want or what you're talking about or the meaning of this thread..... It's goone all over the place when it left health care and got argued with donations for roads and bridge work.....

    We'll never get back to smalller government by building more. Health care is not part of the constitutuion. You're own welfare and happiness is yours to pursue because God has given you righta and our government is limited by its constitution which is its treaty of peace between the rule of man and the man who made the rule.... which is everyman.

    Welfare is your own happiness and health and the way you choose to provide. It is not a check, a stamp, nor a promise by government.. Welfare as defined today wasn't considered back then in the popular use of the word. A general welfare is the preserving the gerneral melieu unencumbered by rules and regulation which would restrict you from your pursuits and other men from theirs.
     
  4. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    No, you just want to expand the power of government to take money from one group of people who has earned it, to give to another group who has not, while taking over the entire healthcare industry.

    What's Marxist about that?
     
  5. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Of course we will. Didn't you hear Oba-mao say that we're going to get out of the financial crisis by spending more of the money we didn't have in the first place?
     
    #165 JohnDeereFan, Dec 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2009
  6. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    So your solution to this problem is to get the feds MORE involved in our personal lives?????:BangHead::BangHead:

    I must have missed something!:confused::confused:
     
  7. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    Had enough already? Come on man, we haven't even reached the 30-page limit!:tongue3:
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Takeover of the healthcare system is Marxist Idealogy!

    Actually there only two domestic programs the Federal Government has performed well on or at least were successful in spite of the Federal Government: 1] The Go Bill after WWII and 2] The Interstate Highway System. Well actually there were three: The Yankees successfully shafted the South for 100 years after the War of northern Aggression!

    As far as Emergency Care that depends on what you consider Emergency Care. I sure would not want them running the Emergency Room in the local Hospital.

    Government police! I think of the trial, persecution, and conviction of the two Border Patrol agents as an example of the Feds and police action.

    The Military is Great in spite of the Marxists pinkos in Congress.
     
  9. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    The message for the church is different from the message for the world.
    The governments of the world cannot be expected to deal with mammon or power with the righteousness and justice of God. Even God's people have their human limitations as to exercising good judgement. This thread is proof. If government is allowed to have its way, it will even take from the church to redistribute as it sees fit. When the church uses its resources to help others as a ministry..... it is exercising its accountability to God, to its contributors and the glory and thanks belong to God. When governments exercise their power to tax and then redistribute the funds in some type of program for the people, it rarely exercises its obligations under the constitution to consider the wishes of the people, it rarely is accountable to the people for the quality of care, it is subject to manipulation by 'its not what you know but who you know' which corrupts equality of access, and there are limits to accountability: Those involved in the distribution of services have restrictions of budget but little accountability as to how determinations are made or the efficiency of their work: Those receiveing the care have few that they can personally thank, even God is removed, as they are processed like a bunch of lottery numbers on a list and perhaps scaled according to some perception of qualifying, attributes such as age or potential for economic return or contribution to the worth in society. Generally the church makes no such subjective judgements but values all life and distributes within the limitations of its resources, amounts which require no obligation of the recipient and no promise to have the ability to sustain its benevolence: This places the responsibility on those who receive such helps to do what they can for themselves once a crisis is past or is within the power of their ability to obtain other resources, and it places them in a position of conscience before God not to request that which they have no need of. Government helps....... like insurance policies which have low co-pays per visit or promise certain procedures as fully covered w/o co-pays or deductible..... to increase the demands for such services and visits, whether really needed or not. Under the later, those who are conservatively conscious of their own responsibility may not seek all the care which they could receive as a costly entitlement....... while others take advantage of every opportunity to obtain care and attention, whether needed or not, because its 'free' or 'cheap'. I've known people who diliberately went to the doctor on a low co-pay just to get a doctor's note to miss work and get their sick leave pay, when they planned to meet friends out of town.

    Several personal remarks don't add up to me: 80000 in social security? Making only 380 a month? Not explained........ surely you must mean over the poverty level? or is that really net income.....i.e. take home pay after taxes and withholding are applied to the gross amount? Your confusion over the authority and discipline of the church under Jesus Christ as opposed to the involvement of government? Your confusion over our rights being God given as opposed to government provided? Government only takes away rights. It cannot give what is not within its power to give. Either the people keep their rights which God gave to them.... or they give 'em up to government. Once rights are given up.... they are hard to reclaim without revolution. The rights we give up exposes those which we retain to be taken away. Chose this day, who you will serve..... God or mammon! A time is coming where people can no longer sit on a fence. As we are making these choices in the secular.... it is also taking a toll in the spiritual.

    I will say this...... to all who call themselves ministers of the gospel....... You cannot be my pastor or authority if I perceive you are too uncertain regarding the authority in your own life and confuse the ministry of the church with the obligations of the government. Jesus called his own body a temple. He tells me that I am also a temple of the holy spirit. I prefere to worship within a stable community of believers which is organized and called a church..... But I've seen many times on the road when I could not go to church but found fellowship with strangers who were believers..... and therefore my brothers and sisters in Christ...... and together our fellowship encompassed the inclusion of the presence of the LORD.... and, in effect, we had church. No Christian is alone. With the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit..... there can be enough to have 'church' if the organization and the fellowship of friends should ever fail.
     
  10. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    Let's see, if government takes care of all the poor there will be no poor for believers to take care of, thus we as believing taxpayers are forced by government to financially support a program that forces us to disobey Scripture by not helping the poor. :smilewinkgrin: Seems the Lord had a more personal concept of helping the poor than paying taxes so someone else will do our work. :thumbsup:
     
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Hey, you haven't "come into the light" yet...but I'm glad it got you to thinking.

    This is one encouraging thing happening in our country...folks are examining this issue (and others, such as the global warming scam, et al), and they are realizing..."hey, this doesn't pass the smell test."

    If enough folks do this, just maybe we can get our country back.
     
  12. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    So much for the current American Healthcare system not really taking care of folks who can't afford it or who don't have health insurance.

    Little Bailey is on her 10th day in the hospital. Her parents have no health insurance.

    You can help here.

    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/baileyschlador
     
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