Goals of the liberal left /socialists /communists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    There are some who like to impose distinct variables between socialism and communism. However, there are in reality far to many people who hold to far to many varying degrees of each. The result of this is that both socialism and communism has become so convoluted that in reality each has become more subjective in nature regardless of the founding intentions of each ideology. This idea is expressed here.

    The result is that the lines between both have been blurred beyond any real distinction. What is clear in this day and age is that the individual goals of socialism and communism remain the same. What is often ignored from the history of communism is that Karl Marx himself said that socialism is the early stage of communism and the correct stepping stone to obtain it.

    There are those who make flawed attempts to associate communism with conservatism based on the perceived end result of total power where few have decision making abilities over the economics of the country. While there is no doubt that there are the few who try to establish total control over economics and politics what is also important is to determine the means in which that power is obtained and the use of that power once it is obtained. Calling someone or a group of people communists simply because they have a goal of total power is fallacious.




    "Everything about America is threatened today ... this is an epic struggle for the future of America," Edwards told the cheering crowd. "Corporate greed and the very powerful use their money to control Washington and this corrupting influence is destroying the middle class." ~John Edwards

    http://www.alternet.org/story/71922/


    "Two hundred and forty billion dollars in tax breaks for corporations ... but do you think there has been any consideration on the minimum wage? No... What is it about you republicans ... what is it about working men and women that you find so offensive?" ~ Ted kennedy

    http://www.culturekitchen.com/liza/blog/ted_kennedy_on_the_minimum_wage_when_does_the_gree


    “guess what this liberal would be all about? This liberal would be all about socializing -- uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies.” ~ Maxine Waters

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2008/may/maxine-waters-wants-socialize-oil-companies


    More to follow
     
    #1 Revmitchell, Jul 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2008
  2. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    What makes Communism or Socialism fail is that it is based on a flawed view of mankind. In order to work properly goodwill and compassion have to replace selfish greed as the prime motivator behind human activity. From the Mayflower colony to the Soviet Union every time it has been tried it has failed because people are not generous and giving, they are selfish and greedy.

    If all people were perfect then communism would be the perfect system. We would all work as hard as we could, not for ourselves but for our fellow men and women. The reality is that we only put forth effort when we get something for it.
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    "I proposed a cap-and-trade system, because you can be very specific in terms of how to reduce the greenhouse gases by a particular level. What you have to do is you have to combine it with a 100% auction. Every little bit of pollution sent up into the atmosphere, that polluter is getting charged for it. Not only does that ensure that they don't game the system, but you're also generating billions of dollars that can be invested in solar & wind & biodiesel. On a carbon tax, the cost will be passed on to consumers. Under a cap-and-trade, plants are going to have to retrofit their equipment. That's going to cost money, and they will pass it onto consumers. We have an obligation to use some of the money that we generate to shield low-income and fixed-income individuals from higher electricity prices. We're also going to have to ask the American people to change how they use energy. Everybody is going to have to change their light bulbs and insulate their homes. It's a sacrifice that we can meet" ~ Barack Obama

    Source: 2008 Facebook/WMUR-NH Democratic primary debate Jan 6, 2006


    Energy Independence 2020: $50B for Strategic Energy Fund
    In Dec. 2005, Hillary hooked up with an alliance of environmentalists and unions to help unveil a new Democratic plan, "Energy Independence 2020."

    [In a speech introducing the plan,] after praising solar power and wind technology, Hillary turned her attention to her villains--the oil companies--and discussed the legislation she hoped to pass that would force them to change their ways. Unless they diversified away from fossil fuels and into preferred, renewable technologies, her bill would require that they be assessed heavy windfall-profits taxes. This new revenue source, estimated at $50 billion, would finance a government energy fund that invested in innovative energy research.

    Hillary introduced her promised legislation to create a federal "Strategic Energy Fund" financed by oil company taxes. But her energy bill, while music to the ears of the Left, overreached her colleagues. Hillary could not find another senator to cosponsor her bill.
    Source: Her Way, by Jeff Gerth & Don Van Natta, p.279-283 Jun 8, 2007

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Hillary_Clinton_Energy_+_Oil.htm



    Investigate the oil companies and ask for conservation
    What we can do in the short term, and I will do as president, is ensure that my Justice Department investigates what these oil companies who are vertically integrated from refinery to pump, are doing. We need to ask Americans to be patriotic about something other than war. We're going to have to be willing to sacrifice. If we love this country enough, we're going to have to conserve, in our homes, in our workplaces, and alter our behavior to make America what it's capable of being.
    Source: 2007 Democratic debate at Drexel University Oct 30, 2007

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_Edwards_Energy_+_Oil.htm



    These are just a very few examples of the same agenda held by the liberal/progressive/socialist/communists in our government. Covering them all would take up to much space but if you go through the CPUSA web site you can see each of their goals that are pushed from the liberal left on a regular basis. Feel free to offer refutation.
     
  4. windcatcher

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    Communism, in it 'purity' was never meant to work: The idealogy, however, did serve a purpose to appeal to the hopes of inexperienced and niave youths, and all who don't believe in heaven but have a need to think that they can make one. It also served the purpose of semantitics, where you call something by another name to muddle its recognition: Example: You're a herdsman of sheep and goats: both are indanger of wolves: in sneak the wolves in disguise and convince the sheep and the herdsman that the goats are wolves in disquise: After a while, the herdsman, who was once well experienced, lapses in his quick recognition between a goat and a wolf: The sheep, being more dependant on instruction, which is never complete, and direct experience would most likely prove deadly, are more quickly persuaded that the goats are their enemy and really wolves in disguise. In the meantime there is a gradual reduction in all the flock.....both sheep and goats. The goats don't understand the animosity and attacks directed against them. The sheep and herdsman blame the goats, and the wolves grow fatter and stronger until they have so weakened and distracted the whole that now they can reveal themselves and surprise the unbelieving prey. The herdsman, sheep and goats are confused, and some fight among themselves, no longer understanding how to recognize the enemy..... and the enemy, for the most part, watches the entertainment in preparation for the final kill and total control.

    Communism has always been the excuse and the thing feared by some: For the idealist who need castles in the sky, it has also served its purpose of indoctrination: All the while, it is really socialism which is really developed as a means of control and government. Socialism is control of wealth, and power and people by an elite group: It is redistribution of the wealth: It promises security programs in exchange for something yielded in return: It is dessigned to build confidence and gradually, a dependance, as other compensatory but individualistic options are discouraged or more difficult to maintain (the individual choice to remain independant and self reliant). When finally an area of weakness is under sufficient control, the weakness is revealed that there is no promise to continue the supply: Those who might have made a choice against dependance, were disabled and weakened by their obligations to support the programs.... and can no longer recover the independance and self reliance they once valued.

    We are already sold into the Beast/Socialist system.
     
  5. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    A Repost

    I posted this article just a short time ago in the News and Current Events forum but it really needs to be here as well since it is so relevant to this discussion. The article is from NewsWithViews columnist John Loeffler and I think you'll agree with his assessment. You decide:

    :tonofbricks: John Loeffler -- The Sad Road to Socialism

    God Help Us,:praying: Greg Perry Sr.
     
  6. JustChristian

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    You're saying that the Mayflower colony was socialist? Wouldn't they be part of our "Founding Fathers?" Actually, I just looked this up and you're right. I didn't know that.

    http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0902/0902amsoc.htm


    But of course the early Christians were socialist as well.

    Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
    Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.

    Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
    Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
     
    #6 JustChristian, Jul 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2008
  7. Revmitchell

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    The church did not use the goverrnment as a tool to force this on anyone by by means of police, guns, and political ideologies.
     
  8. poncho

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    What is it that makes people believe in a system that's never worked anyway?

    Nevermind I know, socialists control our schools and colleges and media and call themselves public officials and VIPs.

    Hey wait a minute if socialism doesn't work how come it's everywhere?

    Nevermind I know, it's a liberal/leftist/communist conspiracy out to get us all. Or it could just be gross ineptitude.

    Oh wait we don't believe in conspiracies. Ineptitude? Depends on who's in office...mmmmm

    Scratching my head.

    So I'm left with people are either real dumb or easily influenced. Or both?

    Are there any other reasons?
     
    #8 poncho, Jul 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2008
  9. windcatcher

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    The 'socialism' experienced within the early Christian community, was first of all, an agreement of a common faith, which then expressed itself sprititually in agreement and practically in sharing and increasing strength and solidarity and was both effective and infective in its appeal to the lost world who witnessed from without.

    It should be no mystery, then, that the NW SOCIALIST ORDER is conspiring to develope a common 'religion' by which to solidify the agreement among otherwise disparate groups to accept the control of and the dependancy on the government. The freedom we have in Jesus Christ, means all true believers will not be 'conforming' and 'predictable zombies/slaves' and worshippers of the state. This will put the body of Christ (not the churches....cause many 'churches' and leadership will apostasize and conform to the beast system) into persecution.
     
  10. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    OK, first off, it was not socialism as much as it was communism. It was not that they were trying to cure society; they just tried to share everything in common. In the early church we see that they held all property in common (Acts 2:44). It was communism. It is the same form of government the Mayflower colony tried their first winter. It did not work. In both cases lack of productivity led to starvation and poverty. At it is important to notice that both of these communities were strong Christian communities filled with good people. But when selfish motivations were removed the productivity of the people plummeted.

    Why do people keep trying this form of government if it never works? Because it fits their view of humanity. If we believe that all people are good or at least if there is more good in people than bad then we tend to think this will work. If we accept the Biblical idea that we are all sinners and their dwells in us no good thing then we understand why this model fails every time. And of course we also understand why we need a savior.
     
  11. JustChristian

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    So you're not concerned about socialism per se. You're concerned about what some socialists might choose to do. Correct? Otherwise you're arguing that we shouldn't accept the example of the Biblical church.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    If people want to get togther and share all things in common with each other outside of the use of force I say God Bless them. What you will not find in scripture is that to do it otherwise is the opposite of a biblical church. The scripture you provided is isolated and provides no command. Such ideology is a misapplication of scripture.
     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Hold the phone! your not suggesting that we try to follow this Biblical example are you?

    Look there are lots of examples in scripture. Some are good examples and some are bad examples. This idea of holding all their possessions in common did not work. You see Paul later begging for charity to help the poor members of this particular congregation. You had deceit in the example given to us in Ananias and Sapphira. You had church members who quit their jobs and refused to contribute. You had people depending on the Lord's Supper for their food. Surely this example is given to us as a bad example we should avoid.

    Another key difference between the communism of the early church and the communist governments of nations like China is that in the church it was completely voluntary. No one was forced or compelled to give up their possessions. Peter makes that clear when he deals with Ananias in Acts 5. There is a big difference between voluntarily sharing the blessings God has given us and having a government confiscate and redistribute them.
     
  14. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Yea, what you said Rev.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Which is evil and unbblical.
     
  16. just-want-peace

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    Bolded mine

    Such is the tunnel vision of the socialists (read- today's liberals)!
     
  17. JustChristian

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    There's no command here. Just a description of the New Testament church. Since you know better than they did do it your way.
     
  18. dragonfly

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    I guess God is just another Socialist then. Remember the Year of Jubilee when the land of Israel was to be redistributed and the debts were to be forgiven. It would seem that this at least has socialistic tendencies in its application.
     
  19. Aaron

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    No.

    Socialists and Communists are thieves and oppressors. The early Christians were givers and liberators. They understood that while a man owned a thing, it was under his own power, not under the power of the church (or state for that matter.) Acts 5:4.
     
  20. Aaron

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    You need to read more. The year of Jubilee was not a redistribution of of land and wealth.
     

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