God Can Do Whatever He Wants To Do With Whoever He Wants To Do It

You original quote is what God was speaking to:
Genesis 20:6 - "...For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her."


God kept him from breaking God's word to Abraham. (thus not allowing him to touch her or better, marry her)

As I said.. God can do what He desires to whom He desires, but it is not against nor contrary to the persons desires in question.. ie forcing them.

That is why the man was not in sin, he did not know he did wrong and God honored that and kept him from being in sin regarding that issue. Thus the man was not guilty before God for his actions and God kept him that way by keeping him from marrying her.

Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

Oh, I love it! It shows God's grace and protection.

Apparently the "non free willers" don't like context.

 

You did, though not in those specific words as 'He forces them..'. or are you changing your argument?

As I said, I agree with the statement not the false premise my reformed brethren apply to it.

 

Exactly.

Mind you, God absolutely CAN force ANYONE to do WHATEVER he wants.

I find it slightly amusing that free willers find that so unpalatable.

It is his general way, however, NOT to force men to do things against their will.

Instead he just makes them willing.

For salvation he changes the heart and the regenerated heart is willing to come to Christ.

He also uses sinners according to their will by the orchestrating of events as he did with Pharaoh that causes them to be willing to do His will.


I don't care how you slice it, God is in control of every single event from the orbiting of the planets to the shifting of a single grain of sand- every event both good and evil- all of them are decreed by God.

 

After reading the free willer/closet arminians comments and theological slant concerning God here on BB it simply amazes me how they limit God to a genie who is at their beckon call.

I seriously had no clue to where their logic leads. Many on here have shown me exactly where: to absurdity.

I see the extreme of this in Kenneth Copeland theology, how he says God cannot do a thing in this world unless we invite Him to.

Unbelievable. I see his same error in the words of many on here who limit Gods abilities by their own "logic."

 

Actually God can not force anyone to do anything as it was God who determined NOT to. He can not go against his nature anymore than He can or would go against His own decree.

(EDITED IN - meaning to be 'forced' to do something against their will)

While I agree with most everything in the above, you seem to forget the fact that in order for God to regenerate a persons heart (according to the reformed view) He has to, against their choice and desire, make them to be willing to want His salvation - ie.. He has to change their nature against their desire, will and/or choice. Thus you do not have God orchestrating events to cause them to be willing, you have God forcing some of them to obey and orchestrating others to continue on their way.

No matter how one desires to slice it, God has to force Himself on some. That is not grace, that is something entirely different.
However, IF this was how God intended His salvation to be, I would have NO issue with it, but as God has revealed scripture to me (through much prayer and study) it does not speak to this and thus I can not agree with it.

 

Luke.. just so you, I'm not raging against Reformed theology.
I was merely boiling it down to a core element that many (though not all) reformed brethren deny.

I can say that JArthur agrees that God must force upon a person a changed heart because without God forcing that heart on them they would not receive salvation any other way.

This is an honest view that is a little harder to contend with than the one that ignores the fact that God must change a persons heart, when they do not and will not desire anything of or related to God.

And yes.. I agree that God is in absolute control of all things at all times, bringing about His good and perfect will, to and for His eternal glory, for His good pleasure.

 

In a matter of weeks you went from civil, not knowing even your own doctrine that well to an expert in not only your own theology, but somehow ours too...while taking on the abrasive, rude, arrogant side to reformed theology.

Bravo!

 

You DO realize that that word has VARIOUS meanings and the one you superimpose as the definition IS NOT the correct one.

From A. Robertson a Reformed and exceptional Greek Scholar on Rom 2:4

Vincent Word Studies (don't know if he is reformed)

Note their heart is not yet changed but it is being lead/guided toward that direction.

Reformer John Gill states rather uniquely but not very differently

Thus it is not a DRAGGING.. but a guiding type of leading


There are many other scholars I can pull from and word studies I can use, but the fact remains.. the word used does NOT hold the definition you are desiring to give it.

 

Brother, not one of your quotes supports what you are trying to say. One of its VARIOUS meanings means to drive.

Wow, I wonder why you would ask if I know it has various meanings?

EVEN when YOU CAPITALIZE words HERE and THERE to TRY and make an EMPHATIC statement it DOESN'T prove YOU to be CORRECT. :thumbsup:

It reminds me of the other feller that colors everything and uses font size &c to prove his point and I just overlook the entire post. (Sorry, I didn't want to take the time and color my words here to help illustrate that. Hopefully you get the point)

Have you actually read those quotes? LOL. They prove nothing you say. Nothing!

Again, nothing you've said supports your conclusions, just in case you've missed it.

Not one quote. :wavey:

Paul in Acts 9.

I rest my case.

Oh, also, look up this word used in other passages. It is used the way I've said.

- Blessings

 

Why is it that I could find no translation that uses the word "drag" in Romans 2:4? Maybe all those hundreds of translators weren't as smart as you?

I have found that people like re-translate biblical words to suit their own pet doctrines. There was a couple of fellows on the bb a few years ago (now banned) that claimed that forever didn't really mean forever.

Your demeanor has changed since you joined the board. Has Luke taken over your body? Like invasion of the body snatchers? :laugh:

 

What is the Greek word?

How is that same word used in other passages?

What is its definition?

Do you know the answers to this?

Uh, no. You don't.

Also, I was vehemently against Calvinism when I found how this word was used elsewhere in the NT. :wavey:

Go check it out. I've actually done so, maybe you should too, instead of off the cuff commentating on this through your free will lens. Seriously, how is it used in other passages. Go see, and you will be awakened. Obviously you haven't checked it our, or you would know how it was used as I have described.


Also, if I said drag, I stand corrected, as it means to drive. It also means to bring. It also means to induce.

Also, how do two fellows claiming forever doesn't mean forever, have a thing to do with what I said?

Wow. Thanks.