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God Can Do Whatever He Wants To Do With Whoever He Wants To Do It

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by idonthavetimeforthis, Jan 4, 2011.

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  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Scripture

    Jeremiah 8:9
    The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

    Luke 10:21
    At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

    1 Corinthians 1:
    Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[Isaiah 29:14]

    20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

    26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[Jer. 9:24]

    I really do think when we look through scripture God will give us what we want to find.
     
  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    That which is born of the flesh is flesh;

    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    I guess I can safely assume we have all been born of the flesh. We are all presently flesh and blood. We get a cut we bleed. Did any of us have anything to do with our being born of the flesh? Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Are we presently excluded?

    What about this second man the one born of the spirit. What is different about him from the flesh born man? Why would he have anything to do with his spiritual birth? Can he bleed? The first man Adam was made a living soul. The Word was made flesh, that is a living soul, flesh and blood, a natural baby boy born to his mother Mary. 1 Cor. 15:46 says; Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;(the first man Adam from verse 45) and afterward that which is spiritual. (the last Adam from verse 45) Afterward? After the resurrecdtion the Word that was made flesh was made a quickening spirit. God through his Son Jesus the Christ is going to birth others to be conformed to the image of (the last Adam) his Son. These are the ones Paul calls the predestinate the called according to his purpose. BTW it no where says everyone else is going to hell. It just says these are called for a special purpose. I believe that purpose is found here. Eph. 1:9,10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: What? That in the dispensation of the fulness of times (When is this?) he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

    Whatever that means.

    I believe it is God doing the choosing and the birthing.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    ................................................................................................ I love you, Brother!! :thumbs:
     
    #63 convicted1, Jan 5, 2011
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  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Here is something to chew on:

    Gen. 12:10 And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

    11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:

    12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

    13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

    14And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.

    15 The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.

    16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.

    17 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.

    18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?

    19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

    20 And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.

    Abraham(Abram at that time) wasn't fortright and honest with Pharoah here, and see what happened. Abram was no "angel" here, either. Pharoah didn't know that Sarai was Abram's wife, but he didn't entirely lie when he told Sarai to tell Pharoah they were brother and sister.....for they were "half-siblings', so to speak.

    Now on to Genesis 20:

    1 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.

    2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
    Abram had said the same thing, or rather, had Sarai tell Pharoah the same story, to save his neck!!

    3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.

    4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, LORD, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

    5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.

    6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. I believe that God did this because if Abimelech would have known this beforehand, he wouldn't have even tried to be with Sarah. He honestly didn't know, IMO.

    7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

    In verse seven, it looks like Abimelech was given a choice between "A" and live, or "B" and "know that thou shalt surely die" I am no genius, but that looks like a free will choice to me.


    i am I am!!

    Willis
     
    #64 convicted1, Jan 5, 2011
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Do you have a problem grasping such an idea? And that problem would be what? And while you splain that splain this; 'more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband' [Gal 4:27].
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    This is so not true; in fact I've observed it to be quite the other way around; Dr Bob taking much abuse when he really shouldn't.

    Now....if I was an administrator...... never mind....
     
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Are you always so easily offended? Oh boy. :love2:

    So you see this as unloving, right, and you're the big guy stepping up and saving the day with "I love you brother" as if some great ginormous offense took place?

    It's annoying all the colors, fonts, sizes, over and over and over. It's like a Willy Wonka Tunnel ride. Somehow people feel they must do this and also make a giant word to get the point across.

    Very annoying. I don't usually bother to read what you say unless it is addressed to me because of this. Not because of you. Not because of your beliefs. Not because of the version you use. Not because of the type of Baptist you are. It's the annoying fonts and colors, friend.

    This has nothing to do with brotherly love or not.

    (See how easy this was to read? Now imagine if I Willy Wonka-sized it and it was 14 colors and 6 different font sizes!!! :) )
     
    #67 preacher4truth, Jan 5, 2011
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  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Same here. I respect Bob's input and happen to agree with him on this.
     
  9. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
    Apparently, God couldn't force those people Stephen preached to to surrender to the Holy Ghost. The 'did always resist the Holy Ghost.' That shows the Holy Ghost was putting forth some effort to get through to that people, but they chose to resist Him.
     
  10. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Convicted:

    I am appreciative of the use of colors and fonts to highlight and emphasize that you and some others do. Thank you. Sometiemes, on occasion it can be a bit much and or initially distracting, but that is rare. The content, intent and input of you an others is appreciated.

    Love you brother.
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Which response?


    ??

    Nope, that's not what I said. Please reread.

    Says who?

    See your entire theology is based on faulty presuppositions.

    You presuppose that God is not being gracious if he forces salvation. That is a faulty presupposition.

    Grace is unmerited favor. NOTHING about the definition of grace demands that it cooperate with a willing individual.

    Mind you, I do NOT believe that God forces salvation on people- I am just pointing out to you that you have faulty presuppositions.


    Another is this thing you say above. Love is a choice. You cited Romans 13 but there is nothing in Romans 13 to indicate such.

    The way YOU define choice- as the ability to pick one or the other- has NOTHING to do with LOVE. Nothing.

    Jesus loves God the Father- but he has no ability to do otherwise.

    Is that not REAL love?

    The entire non-reformed position rests on faulty presuppositions.

    They presuppose libertarian free will. It's not in the Bible but they just think it must exist.
    They presuppose that love requires contrary choice. Again, not in the Bible...
    They presuppose that God MUST offer salvation equally to all. Not in the Bible...


    No, the boy was overcome with her beauty. Happens every day.

    Tell your wife that that had NOTHING at all to do with your choice and see how that goes over.

    Her beauty made him willing. You are being stubborn here.


    No, though he certainly does on occasion force sinners to do things and it is most certainly God Almighty's prerogative to force ANYONE to do ANYTHING.

    But it so happens that God replaces the heart of stone with a heart of flesh and that new heart is more than willing to obey. That is Bible.

    This is wrong.



    No sir, I am afraid that you just can't get it.

    Wrong.

    He was overcome by her beauty. Happens everyday.


    It was my freshman year in college. Jessica was an athlete and had the build of one who helped her team win state championship in volleyball and basket ball a few months earlier. She was the daughter of a pastor and deeply spiritual.

    She was walking on the campus round and round the parking lot with a few of her girlfriends exercising. Having returned from town I traversed the college parking lot with a jug of milk in one hand and a pizza in the other (not to be consumed together).

    Stricken by this physical and spiritual beauty I timed my walk just so that we would meet as I arrived at the junction of the parking lot and my dormitory. I asked her to accompany me to the state fair. Since that day she has bore five of my children and followed me all over the Southeastern United States.

    Don't tell me it is not realistic.

    If we started a thread here about how spouses first met we would find that your idea of love is not realistic.

    You don't understand what grace is. GRACE HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE RECIPIENT.

    God chose to save by grace through faith but he could have chosen to save without faith and it would still be grace.


    No, I am illustrating your faulty presuppositions.
    Whether or not she will thank him has NOTHING to do with the fact that the fireman saving her against her will is an act of grace. She did not deserve it. To be good to one who does not deserve it is grace. Who cares if the person WANTED the goodness or not? That has nothing to do with the motive of the one saving. He is being gracious whether the person he saves appreciates it or not.

    God is gracious to sinners right now- giving them food they do not deserve and shelter and breath and friends, etc...

    Do they appreciate it? Nope. Do they praise him for it? Nope.

    Is it still grace? You bet your bottom dollar.

    Who cares? That has nothing to do with the fact that God being good to undeserving sinners is GRACE.

    But God happens NOT to force them- he changes their hearts from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh.

    You're kidding right? God forces people into the lake of fire against their will.

    God forces people to do all kinds of things against their will. Many live where they do not want to live and work where they do not want to work, etc, etc, etc... and God controls all of that.

    God forces people to do what they do not want to do everyday. BUT when it comes to salvation God changes their hearts and makes them willing to be saved.
     
    #71 Luke2427, Jan 5, 2011
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  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Exactly. You have just enunciated the Calvinist position quite well.

    God made Jonah willing.

    When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God
    And grieved Him because of their sin,
    God sent along hornets to bring them to time,
    And help His own people to win.

    The hornets persuaded them that it was best,
    To go quickly, and not to go slow;
    God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will,
    But He just made them willing to go.

    Chorus

    He does not compel us to go, No! No!
    He does not compel us to go.
    He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
    But He just makes us willing to go.

    If a nest of live hornets were brought to this room
    And the creatures allowed to go free,
    You would not need urgings to make yourself scarce,
    You'd want to get out, don't you see.
    They would not lay hold and by force of their strength
    Throw you out of the window, Oh No,!
    They would not compel you' to go 'gainst your will,
    But they'd just make you willing to go.

    Chorus

    When Jonah was sent to the work of the Lord,
    The outlook was not very bright;
    He never had done such a hard thing before,
    So he backed and ran off from the fight.
    But God sent a big fish to swallow him up,
    The story I'm sure you all know;
    He did not compel him to go 'gainst his will,
    But He just made him willing to go.

    Chorus

    When Moses was sent to lead Israel out,
    To Canaan's rich fruit-bearing land.
    Resisting His Spirit they worshiped a calf,
    But refused to obey God's Command.
    God did not compel them to go to the land,
    Which with wine, milk, and honey did flow,
    But fed them on manna for forty long years,
    'Till He got them all ready to go.

    Chorus

    When Balaam was sent to the Moabite king,
    And wanted things run his own way,
    His mule, ever faithful, spoke at the right time,
    Made him willing God's Will to obey.
    God can use any man, since He used Balaam's mule,
    For He is Almighty you know;
    He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
    But He just makes us willing to go.


    Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...lieve-moses-israel-worship.html#ixzz1AB8tAa3B
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Thank God.

    :thumbsup:
     
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    All WILL seek him once they are regenerated. The point of Romans 3 is that NONE do until they are born again.
     
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    edited...............
     
    #75 Luke2427, Jan 5, 2011
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  16. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    His beloved

    He tells His beloved who rejected Him not to harden their hearts. We who are gentiles have come to Him through their message. It was Jews choice to harden their heart.

    One day as gentiles we will know that we are included with His beloved and those of His that was rejected was not rejected because of not being chosen but for unbelief. They were His from the beginning, but those who were cut out was for unbelief. We as Gentiles are included with those who was chosen before the foundation of the world when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.

    Romans 11:
    Ingrafted Branches
    11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
    13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

    17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

    22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

    So many think of themselves higher than they ought to, that they can put down people for something they themselves don't understand.
     
    #76 psalms109:31, Jan 5, 2011
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  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I'm trying to understand this.

    No one will seek God unless they are regenerated. That enables them to seek God.

    And once regenerated it is impossible not to have saving faith. Is that correct?

    If so, then regeneration and saving faith are simultaneous?

    I have more questions but they will depend on your answers.
     
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Faith follows regeneration but it follows inevitably.
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Not at all.

    It's not explicitly stated in scripture that they believed and were converted. What would they convert to? Judaism? They were pagans come to see the King of the Jews. Yes, they worshiped him. But pagans worship all sorts of people/things/ideas/objects.

    What's with the attitude? Chill out brother.
     
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    So there can be a time lag. Up to how long?

    And where is the evidence that the Magi were regenerated?
     
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