God can only save those who believe

Hi all,

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I am assuming that this is the scripture that many are debating on. If so, let me ask a question:

Can (Or does) God's Will fail?

 

Which will? He decretive, declarative or permissive?

Question for you...why would God be "willing" that none of the elect (how the cal uses "us-ward") perish if it is not a possibility?

 

Really? That sounds like hyper calvinism. If God doesn't have a permissive will...He has decreed each and every sin?

Why doesn't the text say that?

Why doesn't the text say that?

...and this?

Why wasn't "the elect" used in any of these instances?

 

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How salvation would be granted.

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It's not possible because God is not willing for any (Us-ward) to perish.

Peter wrote this to "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (1:1)

He again adresses it in 3:1, when he writes: "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you"

Now that we know who the us-ward are, what is Peter telling them?

Many where starting to get frustrated because Jesus hadn't come back yet. They were begining to doubt. Peter was telling them to be patient. Christ was not going to come back until all (Us-ward) had come to repentance. There were many people, at that time, that were not believers. If Christ would have come at that time, those that would believe (But hadn't at that time) would have perished. God is not willing for that to happen.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Now, you may be thinking I am trying to prove a "Calvinistic" point. I am not trying to do that, mainly because I am not a 5 point Calvinist. I will leave it up to others to debate that topic. I do however believe that God knows all things. Either it by His decree or what you will choose, He knows all things and because He knows all things, He is not willing for any of the us-ward to perish. His will is for all (Us-ward) to come to repentance.

His will is His will and it does not fail. He is a perfect, sovereign, all knowing God.

 

I believe God permits sin...allows it. He does not decree each sin, since that goes against His charater.

Yes...His PERMISSIVE will.

See above answer. If their actions are decreed, they are only doing the Lords work! You really believe that?!?

 

In regards to 2Peter 3:9, I believe the notes in the NET are the best...

This verse has been a battleground between Arminians and Calvinists. The former argue that God wants all people to be saved, but either through inability or restriction of his own sovereignty does not interfere with peoples’ wills. Some of the latter argue that the “any” here means “any of you” and that all the elect will repent before the return of Christ, because this is God’s will. Both of these positions have problems. The “any” in this context means “any of you.” (This can be seen by the dependent participle which gives the reason why the Lord is patient “toward you.”) There are hints throughout this letter that the readership may be mixed, including both true believers and others who are “sitting on the fence” as it were. But to make the equation of this readership with the elect is unlikely. This would seem to require, in its historical context, that all of these readers would be saved. But not all who attend church know the Lord or will know the Lord. Simon the Magician, whom Peter had confronted in Acts 8, is a case in point. This is evident in contemporary churches when a pastor addresses the congregation as “brothers, sisters, saints, etc.,” yet concludes the message with an evangelistic appeal. When an apostle or pastor addresses a group as “Christian” he does not necessarily think that every individual in the congregation is truly a Christian. Thus, the literary context seems to be against the Arminian view, while the historical context seems to be against (one representation of) the Calvinist view. The answer to this conundrum is found in the term “wish” (a participle in Greek from the verb boulomai). It often represents a mere wish, or one’s desiderative will, rather than one’s resolve. Unless God’s will is viewed on the two planes of his desiderative and decretive will (what he desires and what he decrees), hopeless confusion will result. The scriptures amply illustrate both that God sometimes decrees things that he does not desire and desires things that he does not decree. It is not that his will can be thwarted, nor that he has limited his sovereignty. But the mystery of God’s dealings with humanity is best seen if this tension is preserved. Otherwise, either God will be perceived as good but impotent or as a sovereign taskmaster. Here the idea that God does not wish for any to perish speaks only of God's desiderative will, without comment on his decretive will.

 

People come up with and accept all kinds of things to help their point of view. Like I stated earlier, I am not a 5 point Calvinist, but I am not afraid of the terms "Election, Predestination and Elect" either.

I do not accept that God "Wishes" for something to happen. Christ didn't come and "Wish" He would do something, it was the Will of God. Some people live and breath "Calvinism" and some "Arminianism". Then, there are others that do not want to promote one or the other, but they are instead "Anti-Calvinist" or "Anti-Arminians". They are afraid that if they give in to any point (Or scripture) that would indicate Sovereignty or Choosing, they will be trapped and their views will be tainted.

I originally asked if God's will can fail.

I could care less if someone is a Calvinist, Arminian, Anti-Calvinist or Anti-Arminian", God's will does not fail!!!

Scripture is not all about Calvinism and Arminianism. It is all about Christ!!! He is perfect and His Father is perfect. This means His will is a perfect will and it does not fail. No part of it. No matter how one slices it.

 

God commands man not to sin...it is His will.

Man sins.

Has God's will failed, or does He make man sin?

 

If Christ would have come back 2 days before you chose to accept Him as your Savior, you would have been lost forever.
Guess what? God was not willing for that to happen!!!

Some say it is because you were elected and others because God foreknew you would choose. Either way, God is all knowing. He knows the end from the begining and everything in-between. Which ever way you decide to look at it, you were included in the us-ward. Be thankful God's will doesn't fail. He was patient for you.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

His will was to send His Son to pay for sin.

 

How do you explain this verse:


Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

 

Does this say God's will failed or does this they they were not willing to follow Christ? It is God's perfect plan of redemption.

 

It says that God "wanted" something, but didn't get what He wanted.

 

Amy G,

Without getting into a translation issue, this is what the KJV says:

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not"!

This does have an entire different sound to it.

 

I don't see the difference between "not willing" or "would not". Either way, they willingly rejected Christ. But that is not what Christ wanted.

 

Huge difference!!!

He would have done it if they were willing.

This is the Fathers will. Those that believe will be saved. It doesn't fail. God gets what He wants.