God chooses whom He saves

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Moriah

    Moriah
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    Some here believe that one can hear the gospel and believe, but then nothing else, they teach no one can obey in any way. They teach that nothing of God’s word can be understood until after the person is saved. However, how they think a person can believe enough to be saved is something their strange doctrine does not explain.

    Then there are those who say no one can believe or obey anything until God saves them.

    Both those beliefs are false. Those are the beliefs are of the Lutherans, Calvinists, and other reformed groups. All those groups teach falseness.

    The Bible says our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

    God knows whom He will save before the creation of the world. The Bible says God chooses whom He saves. The Bible even tells us why God chooses whom He saves.

    I would like to hear from others here why they believe God chooses whom He saves. I will also wait to give my beliefs on this after hearing other’s beliefs.
     
  2. Winman

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    God has chosen to save those that trust in his Son Jesus. This is the only way any man can be saved.

    Some believe that man making a choice usurps God's sovereignty, nothing can be further from the truth. Trusting Jesus is obeying God and doing what he commands us to do. Obeying God is not usurping his sovereignty.

    This is why scripture calls it obeying the gospel.

    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

    Choosing to trust Jesus does not usurp God's sovereignty, it is obeying God.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    win

    God chose who was to Trust in His Son ! 2 Thess 2:13

    13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Belief of the Truth is Trusting His Son who is the Truth Jn 14:6

    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    These are His Children given to Him in Election, that Shall Trust in God like He did Heb 2:13

    13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

    So you have it backwards !
     
  4. Jon-Marc

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    "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

    Yes, I guess you can say that God chooses who He will save, and He chooses to save "WHOSOEVER" calls upon Him for forgiveness and salvation. He doesn't go around randomly saving and rejecting people on a whim.

    He calls "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matt. 11:28

    "ALL"--not just the "elect". God will save ANYONE who comes to Him in repentance.
     
  5. Fred's Wife

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    Amen, Jon-Marc! :thumbsup:
     
  6. annsni

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    I'm studying 1 Thessalonians and I came across this verse which I think tells the truth of the method of salvation well:

    1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 " For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. "

    Paul knew that they were chosen because the Gospel was effective and there was a response. How wonderful a truth!
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    Calling Upon the Name of the Lord is an indication of quikened to Life, one must have spiritual life to call upon the Lord in Faith !

    David wrote Ps 80:18

    18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

    Those who God quickens as per Eph 2:5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    You make calling on the Lord a condition man does to get saved, that is preaching the false gospel of works !
     
  8. Alive in Christ

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    Yes, that is true.

    God chooses to save the "whosoever-wills". And He will allow the "whosoever-wonts" to go to where they have chosen...unfortunetly
     
  9. reformed_baptist

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    Perhaps you aught to research what these groups teach before you judge them. No calvinist teaches that we cannot understand God's word until we are saved. No, we teach that the bible is spiritually disceraned, and a mystery to the carnal mind.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    the calvinist teaches that God calls people to himslef through the proclamation of his gospel and by the power of the Holy Spirit those who are called are given new hearts by God (regeneration) so that they might understand and grasp the gsople, thus they come to faith and are saved.

    You have fallen into the typical pelagian catagory error of equesting regeneration with Salvtaion, something scripture never does!

    Ah....and the Holy spriit has nothing to do with this I take it?

    It amazes me how readily people confuse the emans God uses with the things God does, we saved by the Holy spriti working through the word of God.

    God choice is based upon his sovereign will and grace.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    its that the Lord uses the hearing of the Gospel to have those whom He has predestined to be saved by his grace to be quickened/enabled by the Holy spirit to have their minds/heart openned up in order to receive the good news and turn to jesus in faith to get saved!

    message goes out to ALL sinners, but ONLY those whom the Lord has enabled to have 'ears to hear" will hear and believe in christ!
     
  11. Moriah

    Moriah
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    You falsely judge me. I understand what the reformed group teaches.
    In the next sentence you write, you prove that I am right, that Calvinists do teach we cannot understand God’s word until Jesus says us.
    You just proved that what I say is true, that Calvinist do not believe we can understand God’s word telling us to obey.
    1 Corinthians 2:14 does not support your false doctrine. Nowhere in the Bible does it say what you teach, if you teach the truth, then it would be plainly stated in the Bible; however, you have to assume the Bible is saying such and such. My beliefs are plainly stated in the written Word.
    Humans have flesh and a spirit. Some people are more spiritually in tune then others, some only care about the flesh and pleasing their flesh.
    The people who are more spiritual, they hear the word of God and know what they here is not of human wisdom.

    How do you think God gives us new hearts? Please explain. I know how God gives us new hearts, but I want to hear how you think God gives us new hearts.
    Salvation and regeneration are not separate things. Show me from scripture that they are separate things. With your beliefs, a person can be saved and not regenerated, in that case, anyone who says they believe is saved; however, just being saved from the lake of fire is not enough. Not only that, a person has to believe AND repent.
    Nowhere in the scriptures does the Bible say God gives His Spirit to unbelievers.
    You still have not explained why God chooses those He saves.
    I hope you come back to discuss this deeper with me.
     
  12. Moriah

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    God predestined us to be conformed to the likeness of His Son. The plan is predestined. God knows who would believe in Jesus. People are not predestined to believe, the plan is predestined for those who will believe.

    Not one scripture says God saves people first to make them believe. God chooses people whom He saves; God opens the heart of those who choose to obey. A person can become the type of person whom God chooses to save. If God causes people to believe, then what is the reason He chooses whom He chooses?

    When Jesus was on earth, only those God enabled were allowed to come to Jesus and be saved, God hardened the others, because Jesus came first for the Jews who belonged to God. When Jesus was lifted up, ALL men could come to Jesus and be saved. We all have access through faith. Faith comes from hearing the word; nowhere do the scriptures say faith comes from God saving us first; nowhere do the scriptures say faith comes from the Holy Spirit causing us to understand first.
     
  13. Moriah

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    God chooses those who trust in His Son, God does not choose people He causes to trust, as if they have no control over their trusting.
    You are the one who has it backwards.
     
  14. Moriah

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    What do you mean “not just the elect”? The elect are people God chose. The elect are those who Jesus saves.
     
  15. Moriah

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    How do you ever get that that proves or supports Calvinism or Lutheranism in any way?
     
  16. Moriah

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    Calling on the name of the Lord comes before the person is saved.
    Psalm 80:18 is about those who already believe in God, it is about asking God for another chance to be the people who please Him, it is about being able to be the type of people who please God when we receive His Spirit, after Jesus dies for us and ascends to the Father.
    Paul is explaining that the unclean Gentile sinners who did not have a relationship with God, the Gentiles who did not have the way of the Jews, the way to clean themselves before coming to God, that they were able to be raised up and seated with Jesus anyway, just like the Jew who were not unclean Gentile sinners.
    Believing is a work, repenting is a works, calling on Jesus is a work, trusting in God is a work. We are to do the works of God to be saved. Think about it…what kind of work is believing, trusting confessing, and calling? It is as easy as drinking water. Jesus’ works are easy and light, they are not burdensome.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Speaking to sinners coming to God in faith to receive jesus and be saved!

    calling out to God while sinners,He makes them saints!
     
  18. Moriah

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    Calling on the name of the Lord comes before the person is saved by Jesus.
     
  19. annsni

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    I don't know about Lutheranism but it fully supports the doctrines of grace perfectly!! Paul knew they were chosen by God because the Gospel was effective in their lives. :) The verse is really quite clear!
     
  20. Moriah

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    God knows our hearts, and He gives those He accepts the Holy Spirit. This shows us their hearts were the kind that God saves. So, how do you think it proves your false beliefs?
     

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