God Creates Evil

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by drfuss, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isaiah 43:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    Any thoughts on why God creates evil?
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's actually Is. 45:7

    It means God makes bad things happens sometimes. Like destroying wicked people (Sodom and Gomorrah).


    Evil (Is. 45:7)

    H7451
    רעה רע
    ra‛ râ‛âh
    rah, raw-aw'
    From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
     
  3. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    64
    ...and letting Romans torture and kill His Son. That was both bad and good.
     
  4. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    drfuss: Thanks for the correction. God directed Babylon to destroy Jerusalem. Did God create that evil?
     
  5. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    40
    From Chuck Smith:
    Emphasis mine

    This just corresponds to a saying I heard long ago that says the same as the bolded sentence: "You are free to choose, BUT you are not free to choose the consequences of your choice!"

    Unfortunately, too many read only the first phrase of this quote and totally ignore the remainder; and then wonder why terrible calamities overwhelm them!!??
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Add to that Is. 45:7, Amos 3:6 and Lam. 3:38. I take the position that one must interpret those verses from a Jewish mindset of that day and not the American-Greek philosophical mindset of today. They are very different.
     
    #6 gb93433, Apr 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2009
  7. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    drfuss: Wasn't it in the plan of God for Jesus to suffer on the cross for our sins? Didn't God plan the evil suffering of Jesus on the Cross?

    I think God did create evil, but for our good. Since God is the creator, if He allows evil, then I think He created it.
     
  8. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Creating evil and allowing it are two very different things. I do not think God in any way created evil.

    What is evil? It's not a force roaming the universe. Evil consists of actions and thoughts against God.
     
  9. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

    Ps 24:1 The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
    2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.

    How did evil penetrate this creation if the creator didn't include or allow it in?

    The psalms says "they that dwell therein" is the Lord's. Does this include the evil one? Why or why not?

    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    How can something be found in the created if it was not included by the creator?
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    When God created the angels, they were good. Satan was not evil when God created him. Satan chose to rebel, just as Adam and Eve did. This does not mean God created evil; in order to say that, you'd have to say God forced Satan to rebel.
     
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    The text in question in the TNIV:

    I form the light and create darkness,
    I bring prosperity and create disaster;
    I, the Lord, do all these things. (emphasis added)
     
  12. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,878
    Likes Received:
    109
    Exactly on target Marcia, [​IMG]

    >
    >
    To interpret the meaning in the passage in Isaiah (creating evil) we must compare scriptures which clearly define God’s moral attributes. Simply for God to create evil would make God the author (cause) of sin. Comparing scripture we are plainly told God is without moral evil, therefore, He can not be the cause of it.

    (Deu 32:4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

    His work is perfect:
    H8549
    תּמים
    tâmîym
    taw-meem'
    From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

    Without iniquity:
    H5766
    עלהעולהעולהעולעול
    ‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh
    eh'-vel, aw'-vel, av-law', o-law', o-law'
    From H5765; (moral) evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).




    (Jam 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


    Another point I would like to make is “create evil” does not translate to moral evil---but in contrast to “peace” such as war, calamity or disaster, pestilence.


    In Isaiah 45:7 (“and create evil”) when looking into the context God is making a glorious promise to Cyrus and contending with those that hinder Him with a curse. God is telling them to contend with their fellow creatures and not with their Creator. He makes peace, (that’s what He does) and creates evil (and this is the result) He tells them He is the Lord and is instructing them to do these things and follows by giving them a “woe” for striving against Him.

    Here’s some more translations:

    The NKJV
    I form the light and create darkness,
    I make peace and create calamity;
    I, the LORD, do all these things.'

    The NLT
    I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness.
    I am the one who sends good times and bad times.
    I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.

    The ESV
    “I form light and create darkness,
    I make well-being and create calamity,
    I am the Lord, who does all these things.

    The NASB
    The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the LORD who does all these.

    NIV
    I form the light and create darkness,
    I bring prosperity and create disaster;
    I, the Lord, do all these things.

    RSV
    I form light and create darkness,
    I make weal and create woe,
    I am the LORD, who do all these things.

    As for the misguided claim that we must think as the Jewish mindset did and not Greek philosophical mindset; I would suggest scrolling down about half way on the following link until you get to:

    "Finally, we need to look at early Jewish understandings of this verse, to see to what extent they understood this to refer to moral evil or calamity."

    http://www.christian-thinktank.com/iamwrong1.html

    And read on!

    :BangHead:
     
    #12 Benjamin, Apr 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2009
  13. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Just because you fail to understand the Jewish mindset does not mean it did not happen from a Jewish point of view. Remember as Americans we view God from a Greek philosophy.
    The verses Is. 45:7, Amos 3:6, and Lam. 3:38 are quite pointed.
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have not said word one about the Jewish mindset. You have me mixed up with someone else. Please re-read the thread.:wavey:
     
  15. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    A note on this verse from the NET Bible:

     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Did you not write, "Creating evil and allowing it are two very different things. I do not think God in any way created evil. What is evil? It's not a force roaming the universe. Evil consists of actions and thoughts against God."
     
  17. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, but I didn't understand your remarks and since someone else had interacted re the Jewish mindset, I thought you were addressing that person. Sorry if I misunderstood.

    Could you explain what you meant?
     
  18. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can agree but let me ask this.

    How can an angel or Adan rebel unless God included the ability to rebel?

    Would the Lamb needed to be slain before the foundation of the world if Adam had a choice not to sin?

    I'm not saying these things are true, just seeking your response.
     
  19. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,968
    Likes Received:
    128
    The best answer comes from Scripture.

    Read the verse in its context (starting from 45:1).

    The most powerful Cyrus is God's anointed.

    He will subdue nations,
    he will paralyze kings,
    he will open closed gates,
    he will be blessed with knowledge and power,

    ... aaaaand he doesn't know the Lord.

    God predicted your question, whether its translated evil or calamity.

    The text continues:

    How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father,
    ‘Why was I born?’
    or if it said to its mother,
    ‘Why did you make me this way?’ ”

    This is what the LORD says—
    the Holy One of Israel and your Creator:
    “Do you question what I do for my children?
    Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?

    I am the one who made the earth
    and created people to live on it.
    With my hands I stretched out the heavens.
    All the stars are at my command.
    Isaiah 45:10-12 NLT

    Rob
     
  20. swaimj

    swaimj
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/swaimj.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Messages:
    3,426
    Likes Received:
    0
    God created heaven and earth and everything in it. And when he got through he said "it is all very good". There was no flaw in it. There was no evil in it. Sin entered in--evil entered in because of what Adam did. It did not enter in because of anything God did. God is holy, righteous, and good. There is no darkness in Him at all. Can't understand how some Christians hold a theology that attributes evil to God.
     

Share This Page

Loading...