God desires for ALL to be saved!

Indeed Bill. "Not willing for ANY to perish" is a concept that does not fit Cavlinism so it INJECTS into the text "Not willing for ANY of the arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7 to Perish".

Basically the Calvinist view is a little bit like legaleeze saying "We will give a million dollars to EVERYONE". And when people show up for their millions they add "FOR EVERYONE in MY FAMILY with the name LISA".

Calvinism insists that all these unqualified "ALL" and "ANYONE" and "WHOLE WORLD" statements should be "WHOLE WORLD of my two brothers" or "ANYONE that is one of my two brothers" or "ALL of my two brothers". Basically they argue that God likes to be viewed as the SAVIOR of the WORLD (1John 4:10) but does not like to be seen as "Savior of the arbitrarily select FEW of Matt 7" which in fact (according to Calvinism) He really IS.

In Christ,

Bob

 

One question... The scriptures state that God has included them all in unbelief... That he might have mercy on all both Jews and Gentiles. Since all are included in unbelief... Where is the believer?... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

 

Another thing you accuse Calvinist and the Primitive Baptist brethren of their misunderstanding of Limited Atonement but do you not also limit God saying that God desires to save everybody?... If he desires to save everybody why is there the doctrine of election?... Election is biblical doctrine and John Calvin didn't invent it... If God desired as you say to save everybody... His desire also could be to save nobody?... As nobody deserves the saving grace they are in possession of?... If you say you are you do not understand grace as I understand grace... Unmerited favor bestowed upon an unworthy subject... YOU! and ME!... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

 

Well, Bill, since this epistle is written to Christians who are already saved, why would "you" be referring to people who are already saved? Why would God need to be patient for the salvation of people who have already repented?

 

I have never understood your interest in this "few" word. Calvinists and Arminians don't ordinarily argue over the number of people that will be saved. Calvinists say that the "few" are saved by God's amazing free grace. Arminians say that the "few" are saved by man's free will. That's the only difference. The same number and the same people are saved.

 

...since this epistle is written to Christians who are already saved, why would "you" be referring to people who are already saved? Why would God need to be patient for the salvation of people who have already repented?

Although this epistle was written to Peter's brothers in Christ, it was written ABOUT others, as evidenced by the long section on false teachers and then on mockers. Thus the verse about God not wanting any to perish clearly refers to everyone, not just the Calvinistic elect.

Nevertheless the argument is not, as Ken pointed out, about the 'few,' actually -- but rather about the fact that many are called in contrast to the fact that only few are saved. This is another verse the Calvinists must dance around.

 

No, I think that Arminians would also say that few are saved by God's grace.

Arminians believe that God judges us by our based on either accepting Jesus as Lord or rejecting Jesus as Lord.

Calvinists believe that God chooses who He is going to save and then judges based on who He already chose.

 

Or perhaps it would be valid to say that Peter is drawing a contrast between "them" (the mockers/unbelievers) and "you" the elect of God. It is obvious in vv. 3-8, he is talking about "them," not "you." Now in verse 9 he turns to "you" and says to not let the long period fool you, for God will not end this world until "you" (all that he is willing to be saved) are saved.

So the point of this section is "What is the long period of time for?" Peter says it is for salvation of "you." Will he postpone the world until all are saved?? Clearly not; only until "you" are saved. Then he will come and destroy the world with explosions and fervent heat, and then there will be no more delay. So who are the "you"? The ones chosen of God to salvation. And that "Fulness" has come in, then the end will come (Cf. Rom 11:25).

 

Are you really reading what Paul says here?

Romans 10:[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

If this scripture read God's heart desire for Israel is that I might save them then I could understand the argument. It doesn't say it is God's desire but Paul's desire and prayer to God that it might be done. Paul is making the plea for his brethren to be released from their blindness to the truth... Blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

They have a zeal of God though in error are God's children though disobedient... God is not angry at his people but his wrath is pointed toward the leaders that lead his children away from the truth... And they as ignorant sheep follow and are lead astray by false teachers... That is my understanding of it and where I stand!... To each his own!... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

 

Sorry, Helen, but I am a Southern Baptist and I don't dance.

Seriously, I am surprised and somewhat saddened, Helen, that a person as well educated as you would evidently think that Calvinists have not dealt with difficult verses for centuries and arrived at answers that we believe are consistent with Biblical teaching. There are thousands of volumes that deal with these issues.

Just as there are thousands of volumes by non-Calvinists/Arminians that deal with the difficult verses that your side must deal with and that these writers believe are consistent with Biblical teaching.

So, let's not bald-facedly state that Calvinists or non-Calvinists have ignored any verses or issues down through the centuries. Okay? Just because you don't like or you disagree with an answer does not mean it is not a legitmate answer.

 

I was not aware that John Piper has been appointed "pope" of Calvinist theology. I will agree with John Piper when he agrees with the Bible(as I understand it to the best of my knowledge) and I will disagree with John Piper when he disagrees with the Bible(as I understand it to bhe best of my knowledge).

 

Brother Bill... We could argue this until the cows come home... I will be preaching on this come Sunday and let our preacher Elder Amos hone it to perfection... I know what I believe and stand on the same and if I am wrong then I'm also blinded to the truth... And as the Jewish brethren grope in the darkness for the light I do also... Until I am proven wrong by my brethren I stand unmoved... I Say what I believe and believe what I say... And I expect you to do the same!... To each his own!... Brother Glen & Sister Charlotte

 

Of course, Bill, you evidently think that the rest of us are knuckle-dragging, Neanderthal ignoramuses in your book.

 

If it is God's decretive will for all people to be saved, then all people will be saved. To say that God actively, not merely passively, wills for something to happen, and then to claim that it doesn't happen, is to effectively state that God is not omnipotent. And to say that God is not omnipotent is a false teaching. Period.

 

Then I submit that John Piper, and anyone like him, advocates an inconsistent Calvinism.

Regardless how accurate some of his other teaching is, he is mixing apples and oranges in this case.