God doesn't love the lost? Explain Mark 10:21

Why do you say he was not elect ? Because he turned away on account of his riches ? And you, who 'elected' Christ as your Savior, are you willing to give up all that you worked for, all your substance, all your money, to leave wife and kids, families and friends, for Christ ?

Why do you say he was not elect, and therefore of the wicked ?

Because of verse 23 ?

And Jesus looked round about him, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God ?

Did Jesus say, "Verily, they that have riches shall not enter into heaven ?".

Is heaven the kingdom of God ? Didn't Jesus say the kingdom of God is within your hearts ?

Yeah, you, the ones who 'elected' Christ to be your Savior, take one scripture and build you entire propositions and suppositions on that one Scripture.

Well, go down a few verses and note the disciples' frustration so that they asked, 'who then shall be saved' ?

If one who obeyed the law all his life, but happened simply to be rich, could not enter into heaven, who then can be saved ?

And what was Jesus' answer ? He said with men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Why ? Because it is GOD, not man, who decides, it is GOD, not man, who loves, it is GOD, not man, who will redeem His own.

Yeah. It is impossible for man to redeem fellow men, but not God. It is impossible for man to love the unloveable, because we look at the surface, but God's ways are not our ways, neither are his thoughts our thoughts.

 

And you take this to mean that it is not Gods desire to have compassion? Becasue God Judges those who reject him?

I do beleive it. But I dont see where this says that God saves or does not save based on obligation or that God does not desire to have compassion.

1.When was the statement made about loving Jacob and hating Esau? Where was Paul quoting from?
2. Was God speaking of Esau and Jacob as individuals or in their national capacities? Prove your answer from scripture?
3.Was the election to service or salvation? Prove your answer from scripture.
4.Did Esau serve Jacob or was it his decendents that severed Jacobs decendents? Prove your answer from scripture.
5.I am not arminian

1. luke 14:26 --Do you hate your parents?
2.john 12:25 ---Do you hate your life?

 

Hello webdog.

You have no trouble with the verse then and you believe He has mercy on who He wants?

There is the chosen and there are the ones that are not chosen and unforgiven. Those that have their sins forgiven have received mercy and compassion and those that have not do not receive mercy nor compassion. This is God's purpose in Romans nine. He displays His Sovereignty in that He decides who receives mercy and who doesn't wouldn't you agree?
If you mean common grace then common grace heaps up wrathy. If an unsaved man is in peril and he prays to God for rescue and God has organised a rescue this man has not received compassion or mercy because his state is that of a sinner and he will not thank God in the way he should.
If you mean that God has a set elect and man goes about his business and one of them does something commendable why shouldn't God save him then man is incapable of good. We are sinners.

Not automatically but from reading the lines above. The passage is telling us about the elect and non elect and Jacob was elect and Esau was not. Jacob I loved Esau I hated. Before they done good or bad. To show that it's God's purpose in election that will stand not a persons efforts or desires.

john.

 

Hello philg.

If God has a desire then I'm sure He would satisfy that desire. He does as He pleases. When He is pleased to have no mercy then that is His desire.

No one goes to Hell because of sin. No one goes to Hell because they reject Christ but they go to Hell because that is where God decided to put those people just because.

And the compassion He shows to the fallen angels then? Was showing compassion to the angels beyond Him or did He just not bother.
But what's this 'obligation' that's found it's way in? What obligation is God under yet He saves His people from their sins? I will have mercy on who I want sounds like He makes a choice out of the lump.

Malachi but it makes no difference if He hated Esau or Edom nevertheless He hated Esau did He not? Esau is Edom. Not all of that tribe was reprobate.

I think there is womb involved is there not? RO 9:10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children...

No. You prove to me election is ever used apart from describing the Children of God.

Gen 27:29 ...Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed."
Romans 9:12 ...she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

I did not say you were I said you have things in common.

Yea sure hate means love of course silly of me to think it means hate.

john.

 

Hello webdog.

Please answer this, can man obey the law? Yes or no?
DT 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Not so. A man must be born again before he can understand anything. Eli's house had no atonement. 1 Sam 3:14. He did not atone for all sin ask Eli and answer me. Did He die for all men. If yes then explain how Eli's house was not atoned for please.

Then with the whole race with a propitiation then all must be saved or the death of Christ is lacking and the propitiation is not a propitiation.

john.

 

Still you have not answered the question.

Just becasue... lol And still no scripture

 

Hello philg.

What question? There's a lot going on man!

RO 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, `Why did you make me like this?' " 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?


john.

 

If he was talking about Edom being hated and Israel being elected and if you believe this election is to salvation then all of Israel is saved and all of Edom is lost.
The haterd and election was speaking of them in their national capacities therefore your interpertation is in error. Not all of Israel is saved. Not all of Edom is lost

You are correct. 2 NATIONS in her womb
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
and the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
and the elder shall serve the younger. Gen 25.23

Cant do it huh? And I already did. See above.

I hope you just made a mistake and are not intentionally trying to deceive anyone. This does not show that Jacob served Esau. It is the prophecy by Issac. Esau never served Jacob but his decendents did. There are 2 nations in your womb.....

Ok so you hate your parents and your life... HMMMM

 

Romans 9 in a nutshell:

In answer to the question how it can be that many individuals within Israel are accursed, cut off from Christ (Rom 9. 1-5), Paul says it is not because the word of God has fallen (9.6a); on the contrary, God's expressed PURPOSE remains firm (9.11c). The reason this situation does not mean the failure of God's word is that his PURPOSE expressed in that word never has been to guarantee the salvation of every Israelite. It is an "electing purpose" by which God aims to preserve his complete freedom in determining who will be the beneficiaries of his SAVING promises, who will be the "Israel" within Israel (9.6b). It is therefore a purpose maintained by means of the predestination of individuals to their repsective eternal destinies.

The interpretation which tries to restrict this predestination or unconditional election to nations rather than individuals or to historical tasks rather than eternal destinies must ignore or distort the problem posed in Rom 9.1-5 is that "all those from Israel are not Israel" (9.6b-8), the closely analogous texts elswhere in Paul, and the implications of 9.14-23. The position is exegetically untenable.

Paul's solution to the problem of 9.1-5 is that "all those from Israel are not Israel" (9.6b). Within the context of Rom 9 this means that God maintains his sovereign prupose of electioin by determining before they are born who will belong to the "saved" among Israel. And this determination is not based on what any man is or wills or does (9.11,12,16), but solely on God whose word or call effects what he purposes (9.12b). For this reasoon Paul is confident that God's word has not fallen but is in fact working out God's sovereign purpose even in the unbelief of Paul's kinsmen.

 

Hello webdog.

Yea I've noticed that as well! We do fall back on scripture don't we? What do you want us to do, stop using it? HaHa!

That is adding to the scripture. The scripture says: RO 9:19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?"
This question is expected by Paul if you have follwed his argument. It is anticipated and the answer to it is mind your own business. 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?
It's the conclusion not a hypothetical.

And that is a bending of the truth. In which way did He use Mary's actions? He said she would be with Child. Judas the man of doom. Find out what doom means.
Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
How did God make use of his actions but He raised Him up for the very reason of destroying him.

john.

 

Hello philg.

No because as rc says not all of Israel is Israel. As for Edom, the reason I say not all are reprobate is: REV 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.

No we were talking about the word. You prove to me that the word is used in the way you suggest. I'm not saying God does not choose who does what but the word election is never used to my knowledge outside the saved.

Why do you question my integrity? Are you judging me with your own standard?

The scripture says: "The older will serve the younger." And as I repeat the scripture you ask me if I deceive?

Gen 27:29 ...Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed." That is Isaac speaking as He was moved by the Holy Spirit why do you not believe?

LK 9:59 He said to another man, "Follow me."
But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."

LK 9:60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

LK 9:61 Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family."

LK 9:62 Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."


john.

 

That's not what 'songbird' said. Besides, we are commanded to believe so how is lack of faith not a sin? </font>[/QUOTE]That wasn't in response to songbird, but the question you asked. </font>[/QUOTE]The point is that I wanted to know why songbird said what he said. From you I would like to know how lack of faith is not a sin.