God doesn't love the lost? Explain Matthew 5:43-48

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by webdog, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    Calvinists, please explain how we are to follow God's command to love our enemies, when according to your doctrine God doesn't love His enemies (the "non elect").
     
  2. whatever

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    webdog, please explain how we are to follow God's command to not be jealous, when according to His revelation of Himself, He is jealous.

    Besides, God does love His enemies.
     
  3. whetstone

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    When did we ever claim that God has no love for His enemies? He simply does not love them like He loves His bride. What's so hard to understand about that?
     
  4. 4His_glory

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    John MacArthur wrote a great book titled, "The Love of God".

    He carefuly shows how that that God's love is two dimensional. He loves all humanity, but He has a special love for believers- His elect.

    I quote on portion of his book found on page 95:

    "These tow aspects of God's love- His universal love for all humanity, and His particular love for the elect- must not be confounded. To affirm that God loves the elect with a saving love is not ot suggest that He has no love whatsoever for the rest of humanity. And to acknowledge that God genuinely loves even those whom He does not save is not to impute any kind of feebleness to God. In the end, none of His purpose are thwarted, and every aspect of HIs love perfectly declares His glory."

    To which I say amen and amen.
     
  5. webdog

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    So then God would create a man, in His own image, who He loves since before time to be a "non elect" with no chance at salvation? He would go on then to create the majority of all humans that ever lived and ever will live in this same manner, "sparing" a few? Wow. Hard and sad to believe there is a group of believers that think God is this way.
     
  6. johnp.

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    Hello webdog.
    Man is not created in God's image but in man's image since the fall.
    GE 5:1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "
    GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.

    You will not find the image of God being spoken of with any other than the saved from the fall. Since we are being comformed into the likeness of Christ then we could not have been in that likeness from conception.
    There is no 'before time' but that aside He could never love those He has not chosen. That is error.
    REV 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
    The number saved will beyond our counting. But what has that to do with you if He has only spared a few? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
    I think it's all wow anyway. :cool: Who asked me if I wanted to be born? HaHa!
    He is not very good at His own publicity is He? But there are not many that think only a few will be saved and they tend to be Arminians saying Calvinists do. :cool:

    He could never love those He has not chosen. It is an error to claim this and a backtracking. Love never fails. It always protects.
    Jacob I loved Esau I hated becomes, but I only hated Easu sometime after his conception.
    God created two groups of people. To some He claimed them as His own and the others were not so claimed.
    To those He chose He loved and those He chose not to love He did not choose to love but hate was their lot from before the creation of the world.
    You are commanded to love your enemies not do like God does? Do as He says not as He does. He is not subject to any law nor is He subject to us. He does as He pleases.

    God hates His enemies. If at anytime He does not hate His enemies He will love them and then that love will never fail.

    john.
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    Who says the elect are a few? Many Calvinists beleive that the elect is an inumberable number.

    Spurgeon believed that their would be more people in heaven than hell.

    Just another case of how Calvinists are misunderstood.
     
  8. webdog

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    You don't think the believers are outnumbered in the world? You don't believe in "broad is the path to destruction"? Who cares what Spurgeon thinks.
     
  9. johnp.

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    Babies man millions and billions of babies :cool:

    john.
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    I agree john.

    We do not know the numbers throughout redemtive history of the redeemed.
     
  11. 4His_glory

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    I do. Him with all the rest of the conservative, godly, pastors, teachers, theologians,missionaries, evangelists, and commentators that God has used throughout history.

    Does that mean I buy everything they say? No of course not. But I recognize that God has given us spirtual forefathers and leaders to help us understand His Word.
     
  12. whetstone

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    Exactly. If we don't stand on the shoulders of great men before us, we start over from scratch...and develop false doctrines by not considering a comprehensive view of scripture.
     
  13. OCC

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    Which is it? 4Hisglory says God loves all mankind. Johnp says "not so". Which is it?

    For Calvinism to have any kind of credibility and consistency, God HAS to hate the non-elect. Who would love someone but not really love them and predestine them to hell?
     
  14. whatever

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    Who would love someone and let them choose hell?
     
  15. OCC

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    Who would love someone and let them choose hell? </font>[/QUOTE]God??? At least it is consistent with Arminianism. God loves man, lets him decide if he will repent or not, gives man man's wish. That's love. :D
     
  16. whatever

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    God??? At least it is consistent with Arminianism. God loves man, lets him decide if he will repent or not, gives man man's wish. That's love. :D </font>[/QUOTE]So God could save them but He does not? That is love? Where does the Bible define love that way?

    Back up further. God knew that if He created them they would suffer eternal damnation. He did not have to create them. And yet He did create them, knowing what they would choose. How is that love?
     
  17. OCC

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    Hey I don't know man. But it's no worse than God creating people and hating them and predestinating them to hell...is it?

    Jesus said to Jerusalem that He longed to gather them like a hen gathers her chicks but THEY would not let Him. He says this with tears. That is love.
     
  18. whatever

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    Actually it is no worse that God creating people and loving them and predestinating them to hell.

    That is not quite what Jesus said to Jerusalem. But I do not believe that God hates the lost. I am only pointing out that you have to answer the same questions that we do about what God's love is like, and that love does not mean giving one what one wants.
     
  19. OCC

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    That is what Jesus said to Jerusalem isn't it? Yeah we do have to answer the same questions, that I am not arguing.
     
  20. johnp.

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    Who would love someone and let them choose hell?
    That is not love is it? Love always protects.
    From before the foundation of the world.
    :cool:
    That is not love. :cool: Love always protects.
    I'd go for johnp. :cool:
    Can't argue the point because Calvinism is just another name for educated Christian. :cool: He does hate the non-elect but there is no must with God. He does not hate the non-elect because they are not elect but that He hates those He did not elect. A choice was made to hate some and love others the choice dependant solely on the will of God, a decision taken before the creation of the world.
    Essentially creating to send to Hell is where we all end up. At least this way, that He does create to send to Hell, does not mess with love. Man's love can fail.
    Love never fails. For God to love and then hate must destroy the peace that passes all understanding. Where is the difference with us? If He once loved a person He now hates then that person could be me. Perverted love is not love.
    Love is love. God's love never fails. Love deals with the beloved's needs and wants. To create to send to Hell is not love. It is not love in any shape or form.
    Love deals with the beloved's needs and wants. He will give you anything you want if it is good for you. Going to Hell is not good for you, it can seriously damage your health.

    john.
     

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