God Got The Memo

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Jesus said He came to seek and save the lost...to call sinners to repentance. Scriptures say we are ALL lost and we are ALL sinners. Christ died for ALL and WILL save whosoever calleth upon the name of the LORD! (not just a group of "elect"). BTW Rippon, what makes you so sure you are one of the "elect"? Did you wake up "saved" one morning?

 

News Flash, Rippon...

There are plenty of people in the Word of God who clearly are saved and are not called 'elect'.

When Peter stood in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost and preached, one of the great promises made that day was "whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved". He did not say whosoever shall call upon the Lord may or may not be saved. No, he said 'whosoever,' which included everybody there... even the scoffers. And he said 'shall be saved.' That my friend is a promise, not to the elect only, but to all who will call upon the name of the Lord.

The philippian jailor was not told he may or not be saved if he believed.

In Romans 10, Paul did not say whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord may or may not be saved.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Why no mention of the elect in any of these passages? Paul, in the last passage I quoted, stated that it was ungodly men who forbid the preaching of the gospel to the gentiles that they might be saved. He did not say to certain of the gentiles. No, he included all gentiles.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God wants all men to be saved, not just the elect.

John wrote to Gaius... a saved man, yet never addressed him as elect. Aquilla and Priscilla, who expounded the Word of God more clearly, were not mentioned as elect. Surely you are not saying they were not saved?

You need to rethink your beliefs concerning who God offers Salvation to, they are contrary to the Word of God.

 

Nothing wrong with my memory, Rippon. Your Calvinistic gospel is contrary to the Word of God and we both reject it!

 

Actually, Christ died for more than one "certain set of people". That includes -
A. "all"

A1. A subset of "all" included in this is "them" - "those who live"

B. "us"

"us" has two subsets - those "still sinners", and those "to obtain salvation", as I have embolded above in the verses.

C. "the ungodly"

BTW, any not liking these categories should take it up with the one God who not only "Got The Memo", but even "Gave The Memo" that He called "The Scriptures". I suggest He can, for a short time, bring His thoughts "down" to a level that can 'understand' your thoughts.

Ed

 

And you know this - how?

Ed

 

Hello...

What does redemption mean?

 

Excuse me for my persistent ignorance.
Do you mean God created some people already subject to destruction and some for glory ?
Do you have Scripture for these thoughts ?

 

I asked Webdog these questions, but I guess he's out or something so let me continue with what I was trying to say which was interrupted. Had to drive my wife to her place of work.

The line of thought that God created certain persons for destruction with no chance of salvation is as ridiculous as the Double Predestination or Absolute Predestination doctrines of some Calvinists.

Honestly, I am getting more and more surprised at some Arminians.

Yesterday, I was driving home and was listening to Chuck Swindoll.

Now, Mr. Swindoll, IMHO, is one of the better preachers out there. I would rate this gentleman on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 as the highest) a 9 hands down. He is good at doctrinal as well as practical preaching.

Now, I don't know if Mr. Swindoll is Arminian or Calvinist, but I think he is more of the former.

At the end of his sermon, when he offered up his invitation to come and know Christ, he stated "if you're listening to this message, it is because God has predestined that at this time and day you would be listening to this message. You see, there are no accidents with God"..... or words to that effect. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Knocked me off the wheel.

If that were true, then that principle would apply to everybody who just happened to be listening in on that program, either by design, or by accident.

And, if as most on this board say were true, that every man has the innate ability in himself to respond to God's wooing apart from the work of God in that everyone's heart, then is it safe to assume that all the "unsaved" who were listening in on that sermon did come to a "saving knowledge" of Jesus Christ ?

If the answer is no, and I am almost sure no one will answer yes to that question I gave (but on this board ? who knows ?), then, why did they not respond to that "offer" of salvation in knowing Christ ?

Is it because God created them unto destruction, as webdog says ?
Is it because they do have the ability to respond but somehow, having the ability in themselves to do that which is positive, they also have the ability in themselves to choose the negative option, and God simply just let the chips fall where they may in their case ?
Or is it because God, in eternity past, knew them as the non-responsives and cared nothing for their souls and so chose not to interfere in their behalf and grant them the ability to respond ?

I will just stop right here and let the discussion roll from here on.

I just hope this discussion stays cordial and brotherly for everyone's benefit.

 

Does God determine the bounds of one's habitation? What about those in the most remote parts of the world who have never heard about Jesus? Is there another way to be saved?

 

Go back and read what I wrote in Post #30 of this thread. It is logic.

 

Some people act as if we deserve a 'chance' for salvation. According to scripture we deserve death. Nothing more.
I can see why Paul wrote 'lest any should boast.' Because man thinks he saved himself, and he deserved it. And God has nothing to do with it.

 

Actually, rather than let God be God here, you have humanized His justice for your own convenience. Do you see that? It is YOU that changes the words "not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" into only for "a certain set of people." Can you see where you have perverted scripture? Or doesn't it matter as long as you have Calvinisms intentions and purposes in mind?

skypair

 

It will be that glorious day when Christ comes to claim His bride! The "Holy Spirit is the earnest [engagement ring] until the redemption of the purchased price."

skypair

 

This is one of those things (program, sermon, radio means of outreach) that has been prayed over and God has ordained the answer before the show comes on. God often intervenes for good on behalf of believers who pray in the name of Christ.

No. God often makes blessings available to lost people. Scripture says in Romans that He does so hoping that they will come to a saving knowledge of His Son.

You still have it in your mind that God "draws" only those who will be saved. That is not true and Rom 1:19-20 tells us so.

This is the closest explanation -- except giving them many opportunities to know Christ, which God does, would not mean that He gives up and doesn't love them as your "hands off" analogy suggests.

skypair

 

There is. Throughout the OT, it was operative (but especially in the days of NOAH. Abraham, etal.). Here's how it works:

1) A person realizes a truth -- there is a God.

2) God offers more truth -- that He is above all and eternal.

Truth received brings more truth. Truth rejected brings darkness.

3) If a man will listen and believe/trust in God's truth, he will be justified before God yet knowing not Christ.

4) Such will be resurrected in the postrib "resurrection of the just" and receive Jesus just as we today have.

I cannot give you an example of one such person. Perhaps a missionary could -- of someone emerging from the jungle knowing God and ready to receive Christ upon the impartation of this further truth. This, of course, brings him under the grace/new covenant who will meet Christ at the pretrib rapture.

skypair

 

Nobody deserves salvation. But Christ chose to die that ALL might live. But not all will come to Him that they might have life because they love the darkness rather than the light because their deeds are evil.

They choose to reject the one who offers them eternal life.

 

skypair....

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. There is only ONE way to be saved..

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The O.T. saints looked "forward" to Christ....they were justified by faith... i.e. Abraham. The entire sacrificial system pointed to Christ.

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The N.T. saints look "back" to Christ....they are also justified by faith...that faith must be placed "in Christ's finished work on the cross"

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

The only true peace is in Jesus Christ (Jehovah Shalom)