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The Apostle Paul addresses this problem in part in Romans 1:32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

In my opinion there is something rotten occurring on this thread. The defense of homosexuality appears to be going far beyond defending an unsaved homosexual person who recognizes his sin, repents, and is saved. That is a far cry from the claim that a professing "Christian" who engages in the homosexual lifestyle is doing nothing worse than telling a little "white lie".

 

You're not the only one who sees red flags.

 

And?????????? Is this some dating site where I have to post all my info? :laugh:

 

To rectify such a thing I would have to have said such a thing. So try again.:flower:

 

It's the clique. Y'all see what you want and I don't particularly care.:thumbsup:

 

I Think We Misunderstood Each Other?

I said, "You don't have the direct line to God."

You said, "Umm. Yes I do. And if you are saved, so do you."

What I meant was: No one [you, me, or anyone on this board or in the body of Christ, has a direct line that makes what they say, "infallible!" We are all prone to mistakes in what we believe and teach. Only when we get to heaven will we see the complete picture. I believe God will make room for our human frailties and errors while trying to do our best. However, I certainly do not believe I have all the correct answers. I merely do my best, and pray that it is goo enough not to hurt those I share with, as I am a leader/pastor and I do not want to mislead anyone while they follow the Lord under my ministry to them.

I just meant to infer that none of us KNOW it all. We are all subject to errors and our own understandings as to how a certain Scripture is meant to be heard. God is infallible, Zaac, not you; not me; not Iconoclast; not Blackbird. And because we are subject to being wrong somewhere in our teaching and thoughts, we ought not to take things so seriously when we discuss issues with others. There will be disagreements, and I think we ought to cut another spiritual slack for this reason, because just as we see them being wrong [in how we interpret an issue] they see us as wrong. Only God knows which of us is closer to being correct, so why get so uptight when discussing these things? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Thus the name calling, the belittling one another. Man, this is so inappropriate and unchristian like!

I hope I said this in a way that you could see where I am coming from. I like a lot of what you say. I like a lot of what Icon says. I like a lot of what every brother on this board says. I just can't stand it when the other person gets all pious and better than thou when they present their side of an issue, and then tempers flare, and things are said that can't be taken back.

We all need to be more civil in debates and discussions, and a whole lot less serious, because in the end, God still holds ALL the answers. That is all I'm trying to convey. Sorry for rambling, but I wanted to express my views about all this petty bickering when it comes to issues, and someone always having to be "right" while making the other person not as right as they are! That is not necessary. Many of us will be enlightened in heaven, some more than others. Let's just be about doing what we were called to do. Leading the lost to Jesus and making disciples [as best as we know how]!

I can guarantee all of your on this board one thing. Not one of us will get into eternity and heaven because we were "spot-on" theologians! Nor will we receive our crowns because we had ALL the right answers. We will get into Heaven by the Grace of God through His Sons death for our sins. And any crown we wear will be given for our heart to save the lost. God doesn't care if you or I had all the right answers. Just that we were available when He called us to the front to do His bidding on earth.

 

As I've said many times before, I'm just a layman with much to learn. That's my primary reason for coming to this forum. Many times discussions are way over my head. Have to scratch my head while wondering "what are those folks talking about?". Especially when there are long strings of 50 cent words being being tossed about. :flower:

OR, you said: "In my opinion there is something rotten occurring on this thread."

That's the same reaction that I'm having, just didn't know how to put it into words.

Please let me pose the same question that I asked Zaac to each one reading this thread.

Pastor or Layman:

Would you baptise a homosexual who wants to join your church and indicates that he or she has no intention of abstaining (repenting) from their life style with those of the same gender?

Just a simple yes or no answer, please.
Yes, I would because ........
No, I would not because .......

The answer, please, phrased same way that you would respond if a layman stood before your congregation and asked during Sunday morning worship services at your church.

In closing, this forum is, in essence, a Baptist church -- an assembly of believers. The difference is that instead of a microphone on a pulpit, the pulpit has a keyboard. How would you respond to this question if you were picking up a microphone to lead the congregation sitting before you?

 

(this conversation would occur in private, because when someone asks to join, even if they walk an isle in a service, we don't vote them in right away, we speak to them first about their own walk with God, and introduce them to our church beliefs)

NO...because we believe that sin, along with some others, if continued in without remorse or repentance, reveals a LIKELY heart that does not have Jesus as Lord.

"Mr. John Doe, we appreciate your interest in our church, and are glad to hear you speak of your wanting to serve God. However, you have shared the fact that you are now living with your male partner...and we don't believe that is consistent with God's design, or a lifestyle that is consistent with the Gospel...just as we would address someone who wanted to join our church who was sleeping with someone who is not his spouse. What you need right now is not church membership, but repentance. You may have already felt some guilt about your actions...but the Gospel holds out hope to you, and all who are trapped in various sins. You may disagree with us, and even hate us for saying this, but we are telling this because we care about you, and don't want to withhold the truth from you. We know that you have strong desires that you may not even understand, and we are not saying you have to eliminate all those desires before joining our church, but you do need to stop what you are doing now, and commit to a lifestyle of simple obedience, reliance on Christ, and aiming to please God. If we allow you to join this church without challenging you in this way, we would not be serving you, or pleasing God. If you have questions about where in scripture we base what we are saying, we would love to show you."

Something like that...

btw, let me comment on Zaac's response to this same question:

I think zaac's general answer is pretty good. He's not wrong about everything...just the political stuff. :laugh:

Our church does not ask every person joining about their sexuality. (most are married couples) But if we are made aware of a situation...we seek to address it.

 

righteous, I understand what you're saying. But sure you do if you're repeating what Scripture says. That's how it's easy to tell that a lot of the stuff folks are saying is wrong because it conflicts with what Scripture says.

This board, like life, is filled with folks who tend to interpret Scripture based upon their experiences. And that's fine as long as your experiential explanation is in agreement with Scripture and doesn't start to twist it as so many on here do.

And I agree that's all that God asks. No He doesn't expect us to have all the right answers. But He also expects us to learn from Scripture not just what to do but also what NOT to do.

And there is Biblical foundation to show that every time folks start to point the finger at one particular sin as being "the worst" or somehow more vile ( not saying that you said this) than others, it is a wicked thing.

The lepers.
The woman with a blood problem.
The woman caught in adultery.

Jesus never shunned these people or preached that their sins were worse than others as some on here would propose.

I still have no idea what yall think I have said. But when I see the lot of folks saying the same thing to the folks who are constantly coming at me sideways in EVERY thread in which I comment, then perhaps maybe that would be received as genuine and I would look back to see if I have really said something that I shouldn't have. As it stands, the majority of those comments comes across as everybody against Zaac because he dares go against the group hive mentality.

So I'll say to you the same thing that I have said to many. If you want to reprimand me, do so in private. But please don't say anything to me about any name calling, quips, etc, (that i still don't see other than pointing out the Clique) or anything being inappropriate unless you're going to equally in public reprimand the ones who are doing that against me. It comes across as silly, and ingenuine.

And I don't get upset or uptight no matter what folks think they are seeing. I'll say what I say and that will be that. When people think it's okay to denigrate others and cast them down as the worst of the worst because of their sin, then yes, I'm gonna speak up. Somebody has to.

I have an affinity for the lepers and the ones who don't fit the mold.:laugh:

.

It was and is appreciated.

But that's the point I have put forth from day one in the politics forum and every other forum. We keep complaining about homosexuality and President Obama and folks coming to take our guns, and etc, etc. But ain't nobody talking about pointing folks to Jesus.

What purpose is served in calling someone else's sin deviant, immoral, or saying that they are worse off than people who commit other sins?

The popular phrase that gets bandied around is that "the ground is level at the foot of the Cross". But a lost person would probably never get that from some of the comments in this thread.

It's okay to point out the sin and then point them to Jesus as the solution just as Jesus ALWAYS did. But to point out the sin and then start in about how you are worse off and most vile and then wonder why they won't listen to a lot of Christians?

I just believe that we have got to put on the brakes for that stuff and give people hope that points to Christ.

And is that not what we should want for everybody else? I would hope that to be the desire of every Christian. But when you read the type of comments that have come from some in this thread, I often wonder if some would not just assume that the "undesirables" just go to hell.

AMEN. But wrong is wrong. And I have collectively seen a brand of wickedness on this board coming from one specific group of folks again and again under the guise of Christianity like I have never seen anywhere before.

And it is excused or overlooked or not equally dealt with because the folks share the same basic political beliefs.

It continues to be our, the CHURCH's, unrepentant wickedness that's allowing homosexuality and all other sin to flourish.

 

Perhaps I took it for granted that you do, based on your statement from your post #37-

"There is nothing any more vile about sodomy than there is about the person who continues to steal from God by not tithing.

There is nothing any more vile about sodomy than there is about the person who cheats on his taxes every year.

There is nothing any more vile about sodomy than there is about the person who tells a white lie from time to time because he feels the situation warrants.

The Body needs to be really careful about assigning adjectives to describe other people's sin if we're not willing to accept the same adjectives to define ours.

ALL sin is deviant because the standard is perfection."

If I have assumed wrongly, to that end I apologize.

Comparing I Cor.6:18 and your quote above, do you think that they are compatable? Though all sin is evil, there is a difference between sin done outside the body and sin done against the body.

 

My answer in one word would be NO!

{My parents and most of my fathers people were Old Regular Baptists; Several were preachers. One of my fondest memories of my youth was hearing the invitation at the end of the service. It went something like the following and I believe is the proper invitation: "The doors of the Church are open to receive those who have experienced a work of Grace in your life and wish to join this fellowship." Perhaps those are not the exact words and perhaps one of the Old Regular Baptists on this Board will correct my memory or update as necessary. Note that there was no mention of coming forward to accept Jesus Christ as Saviour! The work of Grace meant that God had done the saving!}​

If a homosexual were to ask for membership and still insisted on pursuing that lifestyle I would have to assume that he had not had an experience of grace, was unsaved, period, and not a acceptable for church membership. I could not present him to the Church for consideration!

THere is much truth in what you have said here. Surely we sometimes fight and scratch like members of a local church do!

 

I think the above is a good practice but rare among Baptist Churches.

 

Me Thinks....

....that Zaac and I have come to some mutual understanding and a type of Koinonia that God intended us all to have. Me thinks that Zaac, and I have a solid foundation going forward from here. Thanks brother for opening up, being receptive, and know this, If anything I said was taken to be chastisement or reprimand, I am truly sorry and apologize, as it was not my intent to this. I just want to refute and rebut that which we were not understanding [as we texted between each other] in the texts to each other.

Cyberspace is a wonderful thing. In fact, I call it a miracle of technology as it allows us all to meet and greet folks we'd never have the opportunity to meet in this lifetime if it were not for this technological medium. The only problem with cyber space is, it doesn't allow for us to actually convey what we mean, see the how the recipient is digesting our thoughts, and make sure we are not offending or hurting. I miss the in person conversations, but this will have to do until something better comes along. So right now I thank God for the advent of the technology behind the PC and cyberspace, as it has allowed me to meet some darn nice brothers and sisters in Jesus, here on the board and others.

Shalom, Zaac! I've enjoyed our talk! :thumbsup: