God is Light and E= mc2

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ben Elohim, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim
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    1. God is resting from all his works

    For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "as I swore in my wrath, they shall never enter My Rest," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "and God Rested on the Seventh day from ALL HIS WORKS"; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST." Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, "TODAY if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath Rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His works.

    2. God is not resting but currently working

    But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath.

    Can you see why the Jews were angry with Jesus' statement? Jesus proclaimed God was not at rest but was working.

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28).

    It is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (Php 2:12).

    So which is it? Is God at rest or is God working?

    God is light. You may see a star far away in the sky. However, the light of that star takes time to get here to earth. Because of this, you may actually be looking at light from a star that is presently dead and presently shining no light at all. But because light takes time to get here, the star may be already dead and currently shining no light at all. In other words, by the time we see the light of the star, the star has quit shining. But it still appears to us to be still shining even though it has come to rest from its shining.

    In the same way, God who is light, is finished from all His works from where he sits with respection to time and space, that is, with respect to creation. From HIS perspective God is at rest. However from OUR perspective he is still working. We do not yet see this reality of God at rest with human eyes. The light of God is still coming to us just as the light of the dead star is still coming to us. From our perspective, God is still working even though God is at rest himself. And this is why Jesus said God is still working even though God is at rest. God works are not happening where he is but they are happening where we are... His light is still coming in even though he is resting.

    But Halleleujah, we can know the full reality of the Eschatological Coming Age where God is now dwelling right here and right now in our hearts. Through His Holy Spirit we can know something we cannot see and understand from a human perspective and with human eyes. God's Spirit is poured into our hearts and with the eyes of our hearts we can see the reality of heaven where God exists, at the end of our own time and space and the beginning of the new heavens and earth, eternity, where God dwells in inapproachable light.

    For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come... (Heb 6).

    He has rested from his works. But his work is still happening from where we sit. We are still seeing his light coming to us, the Word of Creation, the Light of the Cosmos, Jesus the Christ. Praise his glorious name.

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. "
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Again, what does this have to do with the forum topic?
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Again, what does this have to do with the forum topic?
     
  4. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim
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    It has to do with God's perspective with respect to time, past, present, and future, and thus is critically relevant to a Calvinist/Arminian debate, as you know.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    There is no apparent relevance to God's perspective, and that doesn't make it critically relevant anyway. Please take some time to show how this is relevant.
     
  6. rc

    rc
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    Ben, you have to start with your foundation on scripture, and let scripture comment on it. Vague at best philosophy means little here. Open theism is a heresy and won't work around here...God is the Aleph and the Tau. He is complete, outside of the dimension of time. The future will happen to the very sparrow of every tree to every rain drop fallen. It is so to the glory of God for His purpose which is His Chief end.
     
  7. Ben Elohim

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    No foundation in Scripture eh?

    Please explain how God is still working but is not still working.

    As for the "heresy" name-calling.... it is quite easy for me to say "Calvinists and the like are heretics and their claims won't work here" isn't it?
    Anyone can play those games.

    I suggest you engage the question at hand.
     
  8. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Ben.

    ...respection... I see you don't just twist words you also invent new ones. :cool: I had to look it up to see if it was real or not. You should send it to Merriam Webster for inclusion, it looks good. Maybe it will include itself.
    From creative work but the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word... Heb 1:3. To this day He works. Servant King that He is.
    He sustains all things which means He is always working. Simple.
    If this is true then Jesus lied because at that time He was not working. Vain you are. To call Jesus a liar! :cool: even though God is at rest Jesus said He was working
    He is not very far away from you, not as far as you hope and that a truth. :cool: Where is he this god of yours? Up in Heaven! How do you know he may have nipped out down the pub for a pint? A nice place to rest up. Moe's!
    And it's a fool who says there is no God.
    The Gates of Hell never prevail. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 2: Cor 4:6.

    You say God is light, now stop me if I'm wrong but isn't light made up of things?
    Why are you confusing the light mentioned of God and the light made up of things?
    Do you know what dark light is. The stuff Jesus mentions. The light in you is darkness how dark then is that darkness? What sort of light is that?

    johnp.
     
  9. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim
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    Jesus says the FATHER is still working johnp.

    So you have yet to explain how the FATHER is at rest from all his works and yet is still working.
     
  10. rc

    rc
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    Ben,
    Still didn't give scripture.... the onus is on you my friend.
    Study history... ALL the heretics where Arminians since the council of Carthage over 1600 years ago! If you don't know history, you're condemned to repeat it. Keep on following your Greg Boyd friends too, you'll find your on the short end of the stick.
     
  11. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim
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    Um go back and read again. The initial posts opens with several Scriptures. I would surmise a Bible expert such as yourself would know exactly where these verses are located and you can explain them without any difficulty whatsoever.

    I read some Arminian stuff that Calvinists are heretics. If you read this you will discover that Calvinists are heretics.

    Why don't you try dealing with the subject matter instead of the name-calling. Everyone is a heretic to someone. Surely you know this.

    Why don't you just come right out and say this:

    "Arminians are heretics because I say so and Calvinists are not heretics because I say so. There is no reason to debate and hence no reason for this board."
     
  12. rc

    rc
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    You keep avoiding HISTORY. Our church fathers are not to be pushed aside Ben. You cute quips are meaningless and show a lack of understanding to say the least. The only scripture you used was not to support your view of God not knowing the future but one of working or not working. You are commiting eisogesis in the worst way by interjecting the knowledge of God into those texts. In order to talk about God's knowledge you must use verses that refer to it, exegesis 101.
     
  13. Ben Elohim

    Ben Elohim
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    rc, the church at large IN HISTORY, rejected your neo-Calvinistic and Calvinistic notions. If you really knew history, you would know this.

    Moreover, you still have avoided explaining how God is resting and working at the same time.

    If you want to discuss the history of the ideas in question start a thread and we can discuss it. This oen is not about the history of Calvinism, as you can obviously see.
     
  14. rc

    rc
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    Ha ha ha ha ha !!! That's the most uneducated statement I think I ever heard on this board!!!
    If I REALLY knew history, I would know this? GREAT come back Ben... Try backing it up with some history.... ALL not some but ALL councils and synods have backed up Paulinian, Augustinian theology of total depravity and predestination and election!! From Carthage, Orange, Dort, I can go on for hours !! hahah hahahah ! Man that's funny... give me some more Pelagius!
     
  15. rc

    rc
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    And the question of God resting and working is not a problem at all.. Theologically or scientifically. God created time and is outside time, big deal. TIme is material and is relative to the 2nd law and can be manipulated ... wow...big deal...The notion that time has an end also implies SET destinies that HAVE BEEN DETERMINED. Time and man has beginning and an end and it has a purpose according to the glory of God in which man is a pawn.
     
  16. Ben Elohim

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    "ALL not some but ALL councils and synods have backed up Paulinian, Augustinian theology of total depravity and predestination and election!!"

    That statement right there illustrates your ignorance on the matter rc.

    And it is the reason why yourCalvinist brethren will refer to the Roman Catholic view as Semi-Pelagian.
     
  17. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    Please post the scripture that says so!
     
  18. Wes Outwest

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    Spin a TOP, you know, one of those toys that you wrap a string around, then holding one end of the string, you toss the TOP away from you thus spinning the top. It is work to wrap the string on the TOP and it is Work to toss the top so that it spins. But while the top is spinning, are you doing a work? Once the top is in motion do you continue to work, or are you resting while watching the top spin?

    The father's work is that we believe in His Only Begotten Son, Jesus. Jesus told us, "It is finished" then gave up his spirit and died. What is finished? God's work of redemption is completed, there is no more work for God to do. He has given us EVERY REASON to believe, now the believing is up to us! There is no work in humanity's possessing of saving FAITH, for Salvation is NOT OF WORKS. And FAITH is the only human requirement for Salvation.

    The work of God for man's salvation is FINISHED! It is now up to humanity to either believe and have everlasting life (salvation), or 'not believe' and seal our eternal destiny to the lake of fire.

    God Gave us his Word, His Son, and His Grace. It is up to us to believe the Word and Have faith in His Son while God is in his state of GRACE. Furthermore, God gives each generation "forerunners" of the Christ...those who tell us of the Christ, which prepares our hearts to receive the Christ. Those forerunners are those who preach and teach the Gospel of Christ. Some call them pastors, some evangelists, some missionaries, and others, call them friends. No matter who says what it is that 'persuades you' to open your heart to the Gospel message, it that one to who whom you owe gratitude for doing or saying so.

    Yes, the work of the father is finished. His next act will be the pouring our of his wrath in retribution upon all who failed to hear, believe and submit to him. The time of the gentiles will have ended. Now is the day of salvation...Don't miss it!
     
  19. rc

    rc
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    Ben,
    Still no history (don't know it?) and no scripture (don't know it?). I won't give answers (to which I have) unless you can state a premise on scripture FOUNDING your view, and not a post-modernistic, humanistic, philosophical negative of another...

    The Roamn Catholic view isn't semi-Pelagian? Even the great Catholic theologian Jenson acknowledged this...please... I think you got on a forum that is alittle over your head Ben. Little quips saying "your replies show your ignorance" does nothing but show us who is really the ignorant one.
     
  20. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Wes.

    Jesus says the FATHER is still working johnp.
    John 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."

    GE 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

    He is resting from His creative work of making something out of nothing like Ben still does! :cool:

    HEB 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
    You are in the condition that those who fell in the wilderness were in. We must cross the Jordan in faith to enter God's rest. Once in His rest you are to rest from your own labours, your own righteous deeds.

    Not His next act Wes. He is always at work. Judgement Day is not an act of creation as such I don't think. It is more of a destructive act and the New Heavens and New Earth are more of a restoration of the original bits rather than a brand new creation but I'm not familiar with all the arguments surrounding the renewal.

    How's that then? :cool:

    johnp.
     

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