God saves only those He “knows (approves of)”

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Browner, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. Browner

    Browner
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    God saves only those He “knows (approves of)” …
    And this has nothing to do with God’s approval of John 3:16 believers!
    God doesn’t give people His free gift of grace,
    and then approve of them! That’s ridiculous!
    … No, John 3:16 believers must gain God’s approval.

    So, there are 2 types of “believers”: the worthy and the unworthy.
    Revelation 3:4-5 • “You have a few names even in (your) Sardis (church) who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”
    Romans 12:1-2• “… present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service … that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”


    Is I confused … Are the acceptable worthy?
    Or are the worthy acceptable?
    More “worthy” verses …
    2 Thessalonians 1:5,11 • Matthew 10:38-39Ephesians 4:1
    Philippians 1:271 Thessalonians 2:12


    From Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words,
    concerning the verb “ginosko”, Strong’s #1097 …

    “In the NT ginosko frequently indicates a relation between the person “knowing” and the object known; in this respect, what is “known” is of value or importance to the one who knows, and hence the establishment of the relationship, e.g. especially of God’s “knowledge”, 1 Cor 8:3 “if any man love God, the same is known of Him”; Gal 4:9 “to be known of God”; here the “knowing” suggests approval and bears the meaning “to be approved” in 2 Tim 2:19; cf. John 10:14, John 10:27;
    … The verb is also used to convey the thought of connection or union,
    as between man and woman, Matt 1:25, Luke 1:34.
    ginosko frequently implies an active relation between the one who “knows” and the person or thing “known” (see above)
    … thus in Matt 7:23, “I never knew you” (ginosko) suggests,
    I have never been in approving connection with you”.

    Matthew 7:
    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’
    shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
    but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
    22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
    and done many wonders in Your name?’
    23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;
    depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    Can you see that the blue and red portions above are total opposites?
    They demonstrate the difference between eternal life and eternal death.

    2 Timothy 2:19 • “The Lord knows those who are His”

    John 10:14 • “I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep,
    and am known by My own.”


    John 10:27-28 • “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them,
    and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life,
    and they shall never perish”


    1 Corinthians 8:3 • “But if anyone loves God,
    this one is known by Him.”


    Galatians 4:9 • “But now after you have known God,
    or rather are known by God …”


    John 8:55 • “Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him
    … I do know Him and keep His word.”


    John 17:3 • “And this is eternal life,
    that they may know You, the only true God,
    and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
     
    #1 Browner, Mar 26, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  2. Martin Marprelate

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    John 6:28-29. 'Then they said to Him, "What shall we do that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."'
     
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  3. thatbrian

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    Good luck with your list. I can think of many more verses along those lines, as I think that you're going easy on yourself. If you want the law, I can give you the law.
     
  4. thatbrian

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    On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

    He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

    “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

    Salvation can be had if you follow the above instruction.
     
  5. TCassidy

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    The problem is you can't do that. You can't love God with all your heart because your heart is deceitful and wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).

    Nor can you love your neighbor as yourself. "Yourself" keeps getting in the way. (Luke 10:29).

    There goes the "earn your way to heaven" false gospel right out the window!
     
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  6. thatbrian

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    I'm Reformed. You've mistaken an attempt to bring Browner to his senses.
     
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  7. SovereignGrace

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    Worthy believers? Srsly? That's the worse oxyMORON I believe I've ever read. o_O :eek: :eek:
     
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  8. SovereignGrace

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    What makes a believer 'worthy'?
     
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  9. thatbrian

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    Not sure, but I would rather be an unworthy sinner. "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."
     
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  10. SovereignGrace

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    The only reason why I can fathom we are worthy believers is because He is worthy, and we are in Him now.
     
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  11. TCassidy

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    Actually I didn't. I have read your stuff and pretty much understand your position. I was pointing out to Browner the fallacy of such a position. :)
     
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  12. Martin Marprelate

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    Of course! That's why the Pharisee was justified and not the tax collector in Luke 18:10-14.
    That's why 1 Timothy 1:15 tells us that Christ Jesus came into the world to save worthy people of whom Paul was the best.
     
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  13. Browner

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    All I've been doing for the past few years
    is to bring attention to the many dozens of
    WARNING verses about the very very real
    possibility of a true believer losing salvation!

    Since today's Laodicean churches in the West
    are asleep and are NOT doing this, I am doing it.

    Please refer to another related thread,
    which is very quickly forthcoming ...
     
  14. TCassidy

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    Grace and works don't mix. The bible makes that very clear.

    Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
    6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

    Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
     
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  15. Browner

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    Problem is ... being obedient to Jesus' warnings
    to obey His commands is NOT works.
    It is simply obedience!

    Also, you are ignoring about 10 NT verses
    which are supposed to teach us that ...
    those who are righteous in God's eyes are practicing righteousness!

    No more jokes about sending you an NT, I promise!

    It is great wisdom to believe and follow
    the word of God and the Holy Spirit
    ... instead of "the doctrines of men"!
     
    #15 Browner, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  16. TCassidy

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    Yes, the good works of obedience. (Works are something you do. Obedience is something you do. Things that are equal to the same thing are equal to each other. Obedience is works.)

    Yes, as a result of salvation, not in order to earn it. Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. Period.
     
  17. Browner

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    Thus, one's practicing of righteousness is the evidence that
    the believer is in a state of righteousness (i.e. salvation).

    Salvation is a process ... because ...
    the believer's faith MUST endure until the end of his/her life!
    Yes, there are about 10 NT verses about this also!
    But, we are allowed to ignore them ...
    and just continue to insist that BELIEF is all that is required.

    True saving BELIEF >> faith that endures to the end of one's life,
    which includes trying to obey Jesus' commands,
    which includes repentance upon failure to do so!
     
    #17 Browner, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  18. TCassidy

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    We endure because we are preserved in Christ, kept by the power of God.

    1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    Jude 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called.

    2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, he remains faithful. For he can’t deny himself.
     
  19. SovereignGrace

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    "If YOU could lose your salvation, you would."
    John MacArthur
     
  20. annsni

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    And this, folks, is the argument in a nutshell. :)
     
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