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God SAW their works ... and God repented

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by BobRyan, Oct 21, 2005.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your statement "whenever God works" does not specifically answer my specific question about regeneration, total depravity and the ability (or lack thereof) of someone to respond/repent.


    So if we can get to that point now it would be great.

    What specifically is your view as it applies to Nineveh. Did they need to be regenerate to repent -- or not?

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
    #21 BobRyan, Oct 23, 2005
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Arminians would agree saying that the supernatural act of God in "Drawing all mankind" John 12 - and in "convicting the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16, and in "coming into the world as the light of the world - which enlightens every one of mankind" John 1. That this work of God is what opens the eyes of the totally depraved lost sinful wicked person.

    Christ STANDS at the door AND KNOCKS -- He does not come bursting through the door and turn the person ALONE and on the inside into a saint in UNION with Christ so that they can then open the door.

    But that does not mean that Arminians ALSO THINK that Regeneration *UNION WITH CHRIST" PRECEEDs this conviction of truth or PRECEEDS the choice to repent.

    So we are still stuck asking the same question as has been posted above -- what is your view on regeneration and the ABILITY to repent?

    So are you saying that FIRST the Ninevites were REGENERATE and IN UNION With Christ - and THEN they repented and God relented of the destruction He planned for them?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #22 BobRyan, Oct 23, 2005
  3. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    Post removed for inflammatory language.

    [ October 23, 2005, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #23 HanSola2000, Oct 23, 2005
  4. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    So are you saying that FIRST the Ninevites were REGENERATE and IN UNION With Christ - and THEN they repented and God relented of the destruction He planned for them?

    I was unaware that the Ninevites were ever regenerate and in union with Christ. What leads you to believe they were?????
     
    #24 TomMann, Oct 23, 2005
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Calvinsts here have argued that the depraved lost sinner CAN NOT repent without first being regenerated
     
    #25 BobRyan, Oct 23, 2005
  6. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    You are revealing your lack of understanding of a holy, sovereign God!John 5 : 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will Our God is in control of all events and decisions in all of human history!!

    [ October 23, 2005, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #26 2BHizown, Oct 23, 2005
  7. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    I hope you are talking to HanSolo. It would be easier to understand if you quoted his post instead of mine. I was just making a sarcastic statement about his jibberish post.

    I rather should have posted:

    1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness (jibberish) unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    KJV
     
    #27 TomMann, Oct 23, 2005
  8. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Tom mann;
    Wouldn't you say it's time to send out disclaimers of Calvinism then?. Since it has wavered so much, it is no longer trufully Calvinism anyway. There is a lot of truth in not being able to get good fruit from a rotten tree. Wouldn't you say?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
    #28 ILUVLIGHT, Oct 23, 2005
  9. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    Lets face it, calvinism is a label that you place on those who in some way believe in predestination or at least God's soverignty in salvation. There are those to who claim the label because it gives others a starting point on what they believe. There are probably as many variations in those who are labeled arminian as there are in calvinism.

    If I disagree with some points of Calvinism as represented on this board, it is that they are not narrow enough. I beleive in the Absolute Predestination of All Things. When God said that He declared the end from the beginning... I do not take that to mean he foresaw the end from the beginning..... It means he d-e-c-l-a-r-e-d it!!!! That is again, not that he just knew that it would happen, but that he brought it to pass.

    We had a preacher here whose wife left him and he quit preaching. I heard someone say that the devil got the victory in that one. I don't believe the devil gets the victory in anything.. His final score is - ZERO - no hits, no runs, no errors. Well maybe lots of errors in this case. If God wanted that man preaching, that man would be preaching... Jesus said all power in heaven and earth is given to Me! How much does that leave for the devil. He only does what God has allowed, and God has allowed whatever He has allowed for His own Glory.

    I firmly believe that God's word does not return to Him void, but accomplishes what He had proposed, prospered the thing to which it is sent. To me that means that the one the Word was sent to save will be saved. If someone is not saved, it is because the Word was not sent to him for this purpose.

    Most here whether C or A are insulted by the idea of double predestination. I don't think of it one way or other. I believe all are either children of God, or children of wrath. That is a divide that was set from the foundations of creation. And if that makes me a dreaded double pred.... I take no offence at being called that. It is God's business what He does with His creation. It's His lump of clay, He can do with it as He wishes. Whatever He desires, whatever He declares, whatever He proposes, it shall come to pass.

    Many think that God would be unfair if He did not give His creation a chance to be saved. He did..... with the law, and all failed. So He soverignly chose a pecular people for His own. If that is not fair now, why was it fair in the old testament. Why aren't you wailing a weeping for the poor lost Moabites, and Amonites, and Hittites, etc.....

    I could go on and on but I have probablly stirred the pot enough for now.....
     
    #29 TomMann, Oct 23, 2005
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Are there ANY Calvinists here denying this basic point of Calvinism?

    If not - why not get on with answering the question? Why all the dancing around?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #30 BobRyan, Oct 23, 2005
  11. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    Bob,

    I was unaware that the Ninevites were ever regenerate and in union with Christ. What leads you to believe they were?????
     
    #31 TomMann, Oct 23, 2005
  12. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000 Guest

    Post edited for inflammatory and inappropriate language.

    If you wish to participate here, please contribute to the discussion. Regardless of your personal feelings, both views here have been represented in orthodox Christianity for centuries. If you have nothing of substance to contribute, please keep your comments to yourself.

    [ October 25, 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #32 HanSola2000, Oct 25, 2005
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Regeneration in Calvinist theology BEGINS with UNION with Christ – (Here is one of the things about regeneration that both sides can agree upon)

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1534.html#000001

    If one is going to start with REPENTANCE in Nineveh AND one is going to STILL BE CALVINIST - then you have to show how Calvinism gets to REPENTANCE without REGENERATION or gets to regeneration WITHOUT UNION with Christ as defined in the link above by a Calvinist.

    Dodging the point repeatedly asked is not a form of compelling response.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #33 BobRyan, Oct 28, 2005
  14. 2BHizown

    2BHizown New Member

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    #34 2BHizown, Oct 28, 2005
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    MacArthur is pretty good about trying to be reasonable and logical. The Link above is no exception.

    In that link he completely ignores the Calvinist problem of "regeneration before repentance" and completely ignores the text of Jonah 4 as it gives the LIST of reasons why God would have compassion and how that does not fit into Calvinism (or even showing how it might fit).

    He ignores the problems and I suppose the reader would too if they were not reading the chapter and comparing it to Calvinism's foundational errors.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #35 BobRyan, Oct 28, 2005
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Let's see. Bob makes up a "problem" then blames Macarthur for not dealing with it? LOL! ROFLOL!

    Bob, in case you missed the point, regeneration, repentance, faith, salvation, etc., are simultaneous. The Calvinist only places them in logical sequence, not temporal sequence! Duh!
     
    #36 TCassidy, Oct 28, 2005
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I would love to be "The author of Jonah 4" as you suppose above so that when MacArthur does not deal with the TEXT of Jonah 4 it is really just ME he is ignoring.

    Your logic is pretty entertaining TC -- why do you engage in those antics?

    Oh wait! Maybe you did not actually GO to that link posted so you have no idea what parts of Jonah 4 MacArthur dealt with and what parts were not quoted or commented on at all!!

    I guess that would explain it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #37 BobRyan, Oct 28, 2005
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Now that that entertaining sidetrip is over -- back to the subject for real.

     
    #38 BobRyan, Oct 28, 2005
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