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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gershom, May 3, 2011.
Where in the Bible does it say God turned His back on His Son while dying on the cross?
I'm not sure this is what you are looking for but it is as close as I can find:
(Mat 27:46) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(Mar 15:34) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Both of these verses reference back to Psalms 27:
(Psa 27:9) Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.
I hope this helps.
Peace and prayers
The Bible doesn't say that God turned His back on Jesus. But it does say this and you will have to make of it whatever the Lord lays on your heart.
(1.) Habakkuk 1:13 - "Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness with favor. Why do You look with favor on those who deal treacherously? Why are You silent when the wicked swallow up Those more righteous than they?"
(2.) 2 Corinthians 5:21 - "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
And consider what scripture Jesus was quoting and why.
(3.) Psalm 22 (in it's entirety) - 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish? 2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest. 3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the one Israel praises.4 In you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. 5 To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. 7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads. 8 “He trusts in the LORD,” they say, “let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast. 10 From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God. 11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. 12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. 13 Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me. 15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me. You are my strength; come quickly to help me. 20 Deliver me from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. 21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen. 22 I will declare your name to my people; in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows. 26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; those who seek the LORD will praise him— may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, 28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations. 29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!
It doesn't--unless you believe there was a fracture in the Holy Trinity.
Thanks for the few replies. I can't find it either. Some things are just repeated over the years.
It is said that when the darkness fell for 3 hours as Christ hung on the cross that was the sign that God turned His back on Him. Right after Christ said my God My God why hast thou foresaken Me. We know God the Father and Spirit forsook Him when our sin s were placed on the Son as Sacrifice. That is why people say the Fatehr and Spirit turned their back on Him because they couldn't lokk upon sin.
Can you show me where it says that in the Bible, please?
It's in the same passage as Wednesday night meetings, altar calls, & culottes.
44The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
If God was going to accept Christ’s sacrifice—bearing all of mankind’s sins—then God had to turn His back on Him. Thus, He neglected the One who took upon Himself our sins—Jesus Christ.
King David cried out, in times of trouble, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Psalm 22:1) David spoke these words hundreds of years before Christ’s crucifixion. This scripture prophetically applied to Christ, and shows the anguish that He felt when God forsook Him.
Did God despise, or think of the Son as filthy (“abhor”) His suffering for our sins? Did He “have to” shrink from the site, hide His face, and could not bear to hear the cries, while turning away from sin, as it is so often traditionally preached?
Before I go there let me discuss a similar example, when Jesus said, “if it be possible, take this cup from me” it shows that He knew what was coming and had fear of it in the human form; He was then comforted. Don’t really think it could be taken that He didn’t want to fulfill the atonement which was set before the foundation.
In that ninth hour Jesus said:
“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mat 27:46)
SO when Jesus drew our attention to the Psalm saying:
“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?” (Psa 22:1)
Was the Trinitarian Nature of God separated???
Why was Jesus even being allowed to die on the cross? We now know, and I believe this was the point of this saying; Jesus was calling our attention to the truth of who He was, by referring to the scriptural Psalm. This saying was Jesus quoting prophesied scripture, that He very well knew, and I believe it was because He was always teaching who He was, and continued to do this even from the cross in fulfilling the words written about 600 years before.
And what truth is concluded in that Psalm about whether or not God heard Him:
(Psa 22:24) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
No, I don’t think the Father ever turned His back on the Son.
Christ was/is our atonement. As such He took the wrath of God which we deserve for our sin upon Himself.
Humanly speaking, He had never experienced the anger of God His Father until that time of darkness.
On the cross, He voiced His anguish at having been made the bearer and propitiator of our sins.
John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Perhaps "turning His back on His Son" is a poor phrase to use for defining what He endured as our atonement for sin.
Whatever it involved it caused Him to sweat blood in anticipation and brought Him to the door of death.
37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
But I don't know whatever other words to use. Perhaps He was expressing the sensibilty of His soul.
The proof that His Father heard Him was His resurrection from the dead and the subsequent Great Commission.